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#21263 - 10/13/09 11:49 AM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Turnow]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3814
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: Turnow

As far as his assassination, I think he was killed by UCLAs, (unilaterally controlled Latino assets), Cuban expatriates working for the CIA under the direction of E. Howard Hunt, many with ties to USA organized crime, who were disgruntled that Kennedy was diplomatically re-approaching Cuba and for his withholding air support to the botched Bay of Pigs invasion.


An interesting theory is advanced in Joseph Trento's The Secret History Of The CIA.

Trento's account is based on the records of James Angleton, the CIA's chief of counterintelligence from 1954-1975. According to Trento, Angleton was bounced out of the CIA in 1975 because he had become convinced that several CIA officers in high posts were either active KGB moles or had been so thoroughly deceived by KGB disinformation that they were in effect operating as Soviet agents.

Trento says the Kennedy assassination was part and parcel of the aftermath of the Cuban blockade. Soviet missiles were apparently sent to Cuba by hardline factions within the Politburo. When Khruschev "backed down," as a result of his personal and secret negotiations with Kennedy, the hardliners, led by Brezhnev, Kosygin and Mikoyan, saw it as a massive loss of face for the USSR--and so engineered Kennedy's assassination as revenge, while also overthrowing Khruschev.

Trento (and Angleton) say the truth could never come out because the world had already been on the brink of nuclear war--news that the Soviets were responsible for the assassination of an American President would have taken us right back to "one minute to midnight."

It's a fascinating book.

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#21264 - 10/13/09 11:55 AM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3814
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
I should add that one of the most fascinating things for me was that the book was published in 2001, before September 11, and details CIA behavior and general American intelligence screwups dating back to World War II--but rings eerily true, because the exact same institutional failures detailed from the 40's through the '70s in the book sound very much like the failures that have since emerged concerning the Iraq debacle. Things like people being posted overseas who don't speak the language, and large amounts of cash mysteriously disappearing, and agencies with massive resources being unable to complete relatively simple tasks like finding someone or figuring out that someone is really a double agent.

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#21266 - 10/13/09 12:51 PM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
I believe the CIA should be abolished. Certainly the NSA and Military intelligence agencies are adequate.

The CIA, as it emerged from the OSS in the wake WWII, was used by the Dulles bothers, one CIA director, the other Sec. of State, who had interests in the United Fruit Company, I think it was, to overthrow the elected president of Guatemala who was threatening their economic interests. And thereafter, etc., etc., from Iran, to just about every country in Latin America.

There ought to be truth commission and the CIA files open for public scrutiny so folks in the USA may learn of all of the atrocious acts the CIA has committed in our names.
_________________________
Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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#21270 - 10/13/09 05:31 PM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Turnow]
Wally B Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 820
Originally Posted By: Turnow
I believe the CIA should be abolished. Certainly the NSA and Military intelligence agencies are adequate.

Whatever we call it, there needs to be a central agency, "to pull all the threads together." This was the failure of 9/11. In retrospect, we had all the pieces of the puzzle, we just failed to assemble them at one place and time.

It's a tough job. Secrecy is the essence of intelligence gathering. Information is power and humans are reluctant to share it.

Tim Weiner's book Legacy of Ashes, a history of the CIA, is a good read.

James Bamford's Body of Secrets may change your mind about the adequacy of the NSA.

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#22944 - 11/23/09 02:55 AM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Turnow]
Darkstar Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 138
Loc: Aberdeen WA
Originally Posted By: Turnow
What was it that Kennedy was doing "to help the people"? I don't consider that Kennedy was an exceptional president.

As far as his assassination, I think he was killed by UCLAs, (unilaterally controlled Latino assets), Cuban expatriates working for the CIA under the direction of E. Howard Hunt, many with ties to USA organized crime, who were disgruntled that Kennedy was diplomatically re-approaching Cuba and for his withholding air support to the botched Bay of Pigs invasion.


Sounds good to me. It is amazing how the CIA and even to a degree the FBI seem to work behind the scenes with the mob. It's no wonder we'll never ever get rid of those guys

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#22945 - 11/23/09 03:01 AM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Wally B]
Darkstar Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 138
Loc: Aberdeen WA
Originally Posted By: Wally B
Originally Posted By: Turnow
I believe the CIA should be abolished. Certainly the NSA and Military intelligence agencies are adequate.

Whatever we call it, there needs to be a central agency, "to pull all the threads together." This was the failure of 9/11. In retrospect, we had all the pieces of the puzzle, we just failed to assemble them at one place and time.

It's a tough job. Secrecy is the essence of intelligence gathering. Information is power and humans are reluctant to share it.

Tim Weiner's book Legacy of Ashes, a history of the CIA, is a good read.

James Bamford's Body of Secrets may change your mind about the adequacy of the NSA.


Another big failure was our lack of human intelligence and our reliance on tech prior to 9/11. I was listening to an interview with a former CIA analyst who talked about having to rebuild their human intelligence network. Once you lose those assets its a painstakingly slow process to build up foreign networks again.

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#23252 - 11/25/09 10:51 PM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Darkstar]
MWMI Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 706
Originally Posted By: Darkstar
Originally Posted By: Turnow
What was it that Kennedy was doing "to help the people"? I don't consider that Kennedy was an exceptional president.

As far as his assassination, I think he was killed by UCLAs, (unilaterally controlled Latino assets), Cuban expatriates working for the CIA under the direction of E. Howard Hunt, many with ties to USA organized crime, who were disgruntled that Kennedy was diplomatically re-approaching Cuba and for his withholding air support to the botched Bay of Pigs invasion.


Sounds good to me. It is amazing how the CIA and even to a degree the FBI seem to work behind the scenes with the mob. It's no wonder we'll never ever get rid of those guys


I'm confused. How exactly is the FBI working behind the scenes with the mob? And by "mob" I'm assuming you are referring to the Italian Mafia.


Edited by MWMI (11/25/09 10:52 PM)

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#23256 - 11/25/09 11:15 PM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Darkstar]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3814
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: Darkstar

Another big failure was our lack of human intelligence and our reliance on tech prior to 9/11.


Well, there was certainly no "human intelligence" in the briefing Dubya got on Aug. 6, 2001, the one that prompted senior Bush Junta officials to stop flying commercial airliners after that date. Oh, wait, yes there was...

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."

After U.S. missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, bin Laden told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a -- -- service.

An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told - - service at the same time that bin Laden was planning to exploit the operative's access to the U.S. to mount a terrorist strike.

The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of bin Laden's first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the U.S.

Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam has told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that in ---, Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own U.S. attack.

Ressam says bin Laden was aware of the Los Angeles operation. Although Bin Laden has not succeeded, his attacks against the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he prepares operations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Laden associates surveyed our embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.

Al Qaeda members -- including some who are U.S. citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the U.S. for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks.

Two al-Qaeda members found guilty in the conspiracy to bomb our embassies in East Africa were U.S. citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s.

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a bin Laden cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ---- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Sheikh" Omar Abdel Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives.


...I don't see any tech references in there but I do see lots of "humint" sources. Hmmmmm....

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#23278 - 11/26/09 02:15 AM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: MWMI]
Darkstar Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 138
Loc: Aberdeen WA
Originally Posted By: MWMI
Originally Posted By: Darkstar
Originally Posted By: Turnow
What was it that Kennedy was doing "to help the people"? I don't consider that Kennedy was an exceptional president.

As far as his assassination, I think he was killed by UCLAs, (unilaterally controlled Latino assets), Cuban expatriates working for the CIA under the direction of E. Howard Hunt, many with ties to USA organized crime, who were disgruntled that Kennedy was diplomatically re-approaching Cuba and for his withholding air support to the botched Bay of Pigs invasion.


Sounds good to me. It is amazing how the CIA and even to a degree the FBI seem to work behind the scenes with the mob. It's no wonder we'll never ever get rid of those guys


I'm confused. How exactly is the FBI working behind the scenes with the mob? And by "mob" I'm assuming you are referring to the Italian Mafia.


Cooperation = snitches.

And yes I meant the Italians that can be applied to any organized crime group whether it be the Italians, Russians, or even 1%er biker clubs. The feds consistently use them to snitch off their rivals inside and outside their organizations and then let the them roll on and on committing more crimes.

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#23279 - 11/26/09 02:19 AM Re: I am a racist bigot [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Darkstar Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 138
Loc: Aberdeen WA
Originally Posted By: Beavis H. Christ
Originally Posted By: Darkstar

Another big failure was our lack of human intelligence and our reliance on tech prior to 9/11.


Well, there was certainly no "human intelligence" in the briefing Dubya got on Aug. 6, 2001, the one that prompted senior Bush Junta officials to stop flying commercial airliners after that date. Oh, wait, yes there was...

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."

After U.S. missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, bin Laden told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a -- -- service.

An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told - - service at the same time that bin Laden was planning to exploit the operative's access to the U.S. to mount a terrorist strike.

The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of bin Laden's first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the U.S.

Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam has told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that in ---, Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own U.S. attack.

Ressam says bin Laden was aware of the Los Angeles operation. Although Bin Laden has not succeeded, his attacks against the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he prepares operations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Laden associates surveyed our embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.

Al Qaeda members -- including some who are U.S. citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the U.S. for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks.

Two al-Qaeda members found guilty in the conspiracy to bomb our embassies in East Africa were U.S. citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s.

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a bin Laden cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ---- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Sheikh" Omar Abdel Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives.


...I don't see any tech references in there but I do see lots of "humint" sources. Hmmmmm....


I'm sure the same things passed Clinton's desk too since most of those reports were pre Bush.

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