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#25159 - 01/01/10 12:11 PM Re: Truth? [Re: Turnow]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232
Originally Posted By: Turnow
Spare us your sanctimony.


Christ's own words, Turnow.
Even meets Beavis's criteria.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#25160 - 01/01/10 12:13 PM Re: Truth? [Re: funkycamper]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232
Originally Posted By: funkycamper
Damn! And everybody was starting to get along so well.

Invoking Funky's Law.


Don't you think it's a little strange that one who professes to be a Christian would advocate for the silencing and suppression of Christ's own words? And remember, He said that He did not come to bring peace.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#25169 - 01/01/10 01:26 PM Re: Truth? [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3508
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak


Don't you think it's a little strange that one who professes to be a Christian would advocate for the silencing and suppression of Christ's own words? And remember, He said that He did not come to bring peace.


Can't say it any better than this:

As a believer, I do accept that there are eternal consequences to our actions. However, I believe that is up to the final judge. Too many Christians read about condemnation of one type or another and just can't wait to get the process started on God's behalf.

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#25188 - 01/01/10 05:39 PM Re: Truth? [Re: mdean]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Quote:
As a believer, I do accept that there are eternal consequences to our actions. However, I believe that is up to the final judge. Too many Christians read about condemnation of one type or another and just can't wait to get the process started on God's behalf.


Final judgment is totally and completely up to God.
I've never said otherwise.

However, too many "believers" cling to the biblical kumbaya passages and reject Christ's instruction to judge with righteous judgment, holding matters up to the light of God's Word. What does it have to do with me if God's Word irritates, angers, or makes someone squirm?

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Or are you a Paul-hater, too?

Jesus calls on every person to "repent or perish."
One can choose to read Glenn's letter and yuk it up as "sillyness"...or one can choose to recognize the biblical truth contained in the letter, and take it to heart.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#25194 - 01/02/10 12:04 AM Re: Truth? [Re: ikayak]
Geezer Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 973
Loc: Aberdeen, WA
Originally Posted By: ikayak

Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through Him.



Save yourself, ikayak, Jesus is just a dead Jew.
_________________________
By any means necessary!

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#25199 - 01/02/10 09:24 AM Re: Truth? [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3508
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak

Final judgment is totally and completely up to God.
I've never said otherwise.

However, too many "believers" cling to the biblical kumbaya passages and reject Christ's instruction to judge with righteous judgment, holding matters up to the light of God's Word. What does it have to do with me if God's Word irritates, angers, or makes someone squirm?


Look up "passive-aggressive disorder" and the above is what you will find as a textbook example.

"I'm not judging anyone. God is. And I'm just pointing it out."

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#25201 - 01/02/10 10:28 AM Re: Truth? [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

We are to imitate Christ and His Apostles.
They preached repentance.
If it irritates and angers you, take it up with God.


Mar 6:7 And he called [unto him] the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

Mar 6:8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for [their] journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in [their] purse:

Mar 6:9 But [be] shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.

Mar 6:10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.

Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#25210 - 01/02/10 12:42 PM Re: Truth? [Re: ikayak]
mdean Offline
addict

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 513
Loc: Grays Harbor
Originally Posted By: ikayak

Final judgment is totally and completely up to God.
I've never said otherwise.


And I've never accused you of such. I hope I didn't give you the impression that I was trying to put words in your mouth. If so, I apologize.

Originally Posted By: ikayak

However, too many "believers" cling to the biblical kumbaya passages...


Most excellent. I love the quotes, they're so sweetly condescending. Naturally, a message of love and grace should call a person's status as a believer into question. Well done, you've almost made my point entirely, but let's continue, shall we? wink

Originally Posted By: ikayak

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Or are you a Paul-hater, too?


Ah, the ultimatum. If you don't do this, you equal that. Period. Well, for the record, no, I'm not a Paul-hater. He's actually my favorite writer in the Bible. I especially like the part about 'though I speak with the tongue of men and angels, if I have not love it's all crap...' (paraphrased, of course.)

Effective witnessing requires love and understanding. We can preach all we want but unless we *show* people something desirable, something different, something genuine, it will fall on deaf ears. You see, it's possible to speak the truth in such a way that, even with the best of intentions, one still does more harm than good.

Fire and brimstone scares people, it does not inspire people. There may be truth to it, but again, that's up to the final judge. If one must resort to scare tactics, the package they're selling obviously lacks appeal of its own to draw people to it from actual desire. Then, you end up with a crowd of people who don't so much love, understand or wish to emulate Christ, so much as they're just afraid not to say they do. They become the bi-product proteges of the one-trick-pony "preachers", not Christ. I find it holds true that focusing on the benefits of ones actions does more to inspire than to focus on the consequences of ones inaction, and leads to a more sincere result.

Originally Posted By: ikayak

Jesus calls on every person to "repent or perish."


Yes, but more importantly, he set an example with his life that was compelling. He was merciful, compassionate, wise and loving. People wanted to be close to him, be like him. People followed him because he was worth following.

Originally Posted By: ikayak

One can choose to read Glenn's letter and yuk it up as "sillyness"...or one can choose to recognize the biblical truth contained in the letter, and take it to heart.


OK, so let's look at the letter.

Greetings in the Saviour’s name, Jesus. (Unless there's another salutation somewhere, I think he just addressed the letter to Jesus.)

I’m going to wait until after Christmas, to make noise (Denoting doing the reader a favor of some sort. A gift. A gift of peace on this blessed holiday, with the unspoken "I'll be back."- Kinda funny, and somewhat ironic that he's going to table his zeal for the Lord on the holiday set aside to celebrate his Lord's birth.) concerning Washington state’s casinos and The Daily World’s part, in their presence in Grays Harbor and their detrimental influence; legal, for now! (Yes, it's definitely the newspaper's fault that casinos are in business here. It's about time someone pointed that out. But no noise 'till after Christmas. Must... show.... restraint... Is it possible that Glenn already knows his ways are a bit too "shoot first" to be productive, thus the holiday truce?)

The wild, wild west, (Personally, I'd like to have a few more 'wilds'in that sentence, it gives the reader a sense of just how wildly wild it really was.) complete with saloons full of gamblers and prostitutes. (Because only gamblers and prostitutes go to saloons. Right.) How many of those do you think escaped damnation and perdition? (I wouldn't presume to know. That's not up to me so I'll not hazard a guess.) I’ll show you in the word of God, where greed is condemned along with those who live the lifestyle inherent with those infested by those demons of greed and lust. (And I'll show you where Jesus hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes and saved his strongest words for those dressed in robes, pomp and pious self-righteousness. Because greed is not always manifest in monetary increments. More often, and more detrimental, it is manifest in ones action and selfishness, all carefully hidden by a squeaky-clean exterior. Same goes for lust. The stains hardest to get out are the ones buried deep in the heart where sin has its origin. Jesus wasn't killed for calling gamblers and whores on the carpet. He was killed because he was a thorn in the side of the so-called righteous, the powerful, influential swindlers who grew increasingly frustrated that Jesus could see through their appearance straight to their corrupt hearts. Christ's words cut them to the bone because they knew he was right. They did all the outward things right but inside they were poison.

I would also point out that I don't recall Jesus petitioning to shut down the bars. His mission was to change hearts. Treat the illness, not the symptom. If people's hearts change, the rest will follow.

You see, if you petition to shut down, oh... for example, let's say a brothel, you have done nothing of eternal good. You have merely given your street a make-over. You have an empty building and not one changed heart. You've still got as many hookers as before, they're just disenfranchised. However, if you offer the hookers an alternative, a better way of life, and they take it, well, now you have actually done some good. Reach enough of them and the brothel closes purely from economics. But the closed business isn't the win, the changed hearts are. Simply shutting the doos won't accomplish that, though. Thus, I see no record of Christ wasting his time and energy treating the symptoms.)


Truth is stranger than fiction! (My favorite part of the letter. The big finish. The grand "Aha!" to which there has been no proper setup. Classic.

So, yeah, it was a little humorous at times. I don't know Glenn, I'm sure he's a great guy, but if he had asked me to proof-read that first, I'd have told him it wasn't quite ready to go to print. smile
_________________________
Mike

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#25215 - 01/02/10 03:33 PM Re: Truth? [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3508
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak

We are to imitate Christ and His Apostles.


Mar 6:8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for [their] journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in [their] purse:




So when are you leaving, and who are you giving your money to?

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#25223 - 01/02/10 07:16 PM Re: Truth? [Re: mdean]
funkycamper Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4756
You always seem to know just what to say and how to say it.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark

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