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#27086 - 03/03/10 02:16 PM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
mdean Offline
addict

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 513
Loc: Grays Harbor
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
I have said in the past that no one party should own this.


I think you make a good point, it's a real gamble for one party to take this on. If it bombs, it becomes a noose. But if it's a success it becomes a trophy and the opposing party looks like fools. A win comes with a lot of political clout.

The Dems are in a corner and if they fail to make it happen they will pay for it, so at this point it looks like they have nothing to lose by rolling the dice and owning it alone.
_________________________
Mike

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#27087 - 03/03/10 02:40 PM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: mdean]
Brit Offline
addict

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 588
Originally Posted By: mdean
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
I have said in the past that no one party should own this.


I think you make a good point, it's a real gamble for one party to take this on. If it bombs, it becomes a noose. But if it's a success it becomes a trophy and the opposing party looks like fools. A win comes with a lot of political clout.

The Dems are in a corner and if they fail to make it happen they will pay for it, so at this point it looks like they have nothing to lose by rolling the dice and owning it alone.



Unfortunately this is what it has come down to, whether or not it's good for the political party (and their prime contributors) rather than whether or not it's good for the country. Little wonder people no longer trust their politicians.
_________________________
"Both politicians and diapers need to be changed often and for the same reason!"
Mark Twain

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#27088 - 03/03/10 03:04 PM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: mdean]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3270
Originally Posted By: mdean
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
I have said in the past that no one party should own this.


I think you make a good point, it's a real gamble for one party to take this on. If it bombs, it becomes a noose. But if it's a success it becomes a trophy and the opposing party looks like fools. A win comes with a lot of political clout.

The Dems are in a corner and if they fail to make it happen they will pay for it, so at this point it looks like they have nothing to lose by rolling the dice and owning it alone.


Do what's right and politics (usually) takes care of itself.
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

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#27090 - 03/03/10 03:26 PM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3270
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

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#27092 - 03/03/10 04:36 PM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
Ezra Klein adds his two cents.

Quote:
Among the odder arguments Republicans are making against the reconciliation process is that the process should only be used for bipartisan bills, and since they refuse to vote for health-care reform, Democrats can't give their package of fixes an up-or-down vote.

But reconciliation hasn't been limited to bipartisan bills. Here's the recent record: The 1995 Balanced Budget Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 52 to 47. The 2001 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 58 to 33. The 2003 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 50 to 50, with Dick Cheney casting the tie-breaking vote. The 2005 Deficit Reduction Act was also passed in reconciliation with a 50 to 50 vote and a Cheney intervention. The 2006 Tax Relief Extensions Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 54 to 44. This is as you'd expect: If bills had overwhelming bipartisan majorities, they wouldn't need to go through reconciliation.

As it happens, Republicans controlled the Senate during each and every one of these bills. And they got less votes than Democrats will likely get for the health-care fixes. It's also worth reminding people that it's harder for Democrats to get Republican votes because voters elected a lot more Democrats in the past two elections. Republicans had a number of moderate Democrats who could be brought into a 58-vote majority, and Democrats don't have as many moderate Republicans who can do the same.
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Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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#27102 - 03/03/10 07:11 PM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Turnow]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

So will ObamaCare have a sunset clause, or just completely fly in the face of the Byrd Act?

Originally Posted By: Senator Byrd

I oppose using the budget reconciliation process to pass health care reform and climate change legislation. Such a proposal would violate the intent and spirit of the budget process, and do serious injury to the Constitutional role of the Senate.

As one of the authors of the reconciliation process, I can tell you that the ironclad parliamentary procedures it authorizes were never intended for this purpose. Reconciliation was intended to adjust revenue and spending levels in order to reduce deficits. It was not designed to cut taxes. It was not designed to create a new climate and energy regime, and certainly not to restructure the entire health care system.


And this:

http://i.usatoday.net/news/pdf/byrdletter.pdf


And speaking of hypocrites, scroll down to watch video.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=35779

"This is the way Democracy ends.
Not with a bomb,
but with a gavel."


Cheers!

_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#27112 - 03/04/10 07:19 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: mdean]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2288
Loc: SMA Mexico
I think they have a lot to lose by owning it alone and for a very long time. I pulled this comment off of a list of comments on a yahoo story about healthcare:

Quote:
Here's a novel idea for Washington. How about shelving Healthcare Reform and GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK! What good is having access to health insurance if Americans DON'T HAVE A JOB to pay their health insurance premiums. Getting our economy back on track and putting people back to work is far more important than revamping the health care right now. Especially when Americans have the best healthcare available in the world!


20% of Grays Harbor is out of work. Do you think those people are wanting another bill to owe in the future. If you have ever been out of work you know it takes forever to get caught back up with bills. A lot of people feel like the guy above does.

There are a lot of costs the people of this country are going to have to pay because of this bill. There is a financial storm brewing just ahead of us full of even more costs. People will not forget that one party felt adding to our debt was more important than putting people back to work.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

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#27114 - 03/04/10 08:16 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4517
Loc: State of Euphoria
Politicos and corporations have been saying, "Now is not the right time" since Truman. There will never be a "right time" for corporate America or their protectors to willing give up their strangle-hold over the healthcare of our nation.

It must be wrested from them kicking and screaming. I am marginally confident it will be this time.
_________________________
It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to. Jean-Luc Godard

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#27115 - 03/04/10 09:11 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3270
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
Quote:
Especially when Americans have the best healthcare available in the world!


It's not. Period.

Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
20% of Grays Harbor is out of work. Do you think those people are wanting another bill to owe in the future. If you have ever been out of work you know it takes forever to get caught back up with bills. A lot of people feel like the guy above does.

There are a lot of costs the people of this country are going to have to pay because of this bill. There is a financial storm brewing just ahead of us full of even more costs. People will not forget that one party felt adding to our debt was more important than putting people back to work.


A healthcare bill *could* have been written which could have created immediate job creation benefits. Imagine if everyone who was tied to a job solely because of medical insurance was immediately freed to innovate and become entrepreneurs (if they wish) retire (if they wish) or move into jobs which they were better suited (if they wish). Any of those outcomes would create jobs and job openings which don't currently exist.

Instead of killing two birds with one stone, the healthcare bill only stuns the vulture actively carrying our children away. It's a necessary step which meets the bare minimum required.

It may be suboptimal, but what was absolutely necessary 40 years ago is an emergency crisis now. We can't put it off any longer because no job creation bill will be effective if we continue to allow the medical industry to continue their trajectory.
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

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#27123 - 03/04/10 10:27 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Stash]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2288
Loc: SMA Mexico
Quote:
I am marginally confident it will be this time.


Marginally, it might. More than likely issues like abortion will sink it.

I am not against healthcare. With our financial crisis and people out of work it is, at very least, a secondary problem to employment, long lasting employment.

I hope this healthcare bill gets a quick up or down vote and we can get to the real problems we are facing. Everyone else has a years head start on us.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

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