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#27064 - 03/03/10 07:28 AM Abuse of Power
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
The Wall Street Journal attacks this unsavory method of ramming health care down our throats:

Quote:
A string of electoral defeats and the great unpopularity of ObamaCare can't stop Democrats from their self-appointed rendezvous with liberal destiny—ramming a bill through Congress on a narrow partisan vote. What we are about to witness is an extraordinary abuse of traditional Senate rules to pass a bill merely because they think it's good for the rest of us, and because they fear their chance to build a European welfare state may never come again.

The vehicle is "reconciliation," a parliamentary process that fast-tracks budget measures and was created in 1974 as a deficit-reduction tool. Limited to 20 hours of debate, reconciliation bills need a mere 50 votes in the Senate, with the Vice President as tie-breaker, thus circumventing the filibuster. Both Democrats and Republicans have frequently used reconciliation on budget bills, so Democrats are now claiming that using it to pass ObamaCare is no big deal.

Yet this shortcut has never been used for anything approaching the enormity of a national health-care entitlement. Democrats are only resorting to it now because their plan is in so much political trouble—within their own party, and even more among the general public—and because they've failed to make their case through persuasion.

As Maine Republican Olympia Snowe pointed out in a speech last December, Social Security passed when Democrats controlled both Congress and the White House, yet 64% of Senate Republicans and 79% of the House GOP voted for it. More than half of the Senate Republican caucus voted for Medicare in 1965. Historically, major social legislation has always been bipartisan, because it reflects a durable political consensus.


I have said in the past that no one party should own this. The supposed party-of-no's involvement (meaning involved not dictated to) could have created a less aggressive but financially responsible start to reform. No one is arguing against it, only the method.

link.
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Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

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#27068 - 03/03/10 07:49 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
MWMI Offline
addict

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 632
How about this....instead of all the parlimentary BS being done by both sides (see Sen. Idiot Bunning as exhibit A) they propose legislation and then take a vote. If 51 of the senators approve then TS for the side that loses. It's called a majority vote and the losing side will either need to get over it or work harder to get more like them elected. No instead we have a minority trying to get their way over the majority. I say let the legislation go forward and let the voters prove who is actually right in the battle of the polls i.e. the american public approves/disapproves of healthcare legislation.

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#27069 - 03/03/10 08:47 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
What tendentious, and completely false, crap from the WSJ.

Quote:
Former Senate parliamentarian Robert Dove on reconciliation: ""Reconciliation has been used a lot. And I would never use the term illegitimate with regard to reconciliation. It has been used starting in 1980 for very large, major bills. And it is a way, of course, of getting around the problem of the Senate filibuster." See the video.


TPM has the video.

To assert that "ramming a bill through Congress" using a long established Senate procedure is simply propaganda perpetrating a lie which has been echoing through the media.
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Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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#27070 - 03/03/10 08:48 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: MWMI]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
Indeed.
_________________________
Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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#27076 - 03/03/10 09:52 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3274
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
Yet this shortcut has never been used for anything approaching the enormity of a national health-care entitlement.


Pop quiz; COBRA is the acronym used to describe the law that allows laid off employees to retain their employment-based insurance after leaving the company. What does "RA" stand for?
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It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

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#27077 - 03/03/10 09:57 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Lumberjack]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: Lumberjack

Pop quiz; COBRA is the acronym used to describe the law that allows laid off employees to retain their employment-based insurance after leaving the company. What does "RA" stand for?


Uhhhhh..."Republican Amnesia?"

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#27078 - 03/03/10 09:59 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
a mere 50 votes in the Senate, with the Vice President as tie-breaker,



...i.e. a majority, which is how it's supposed to work on regular votes.

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#27081 - 03/03/10 10:19 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3274
Originally Posted By: Beavis H. Christ
Originally Posted By: Lumberjack

Pop quiz; COBRA is the acronym used to describe the law that allows laid off employees to retain their employment-based insurance after leaving the company. What does "RA" stand for?


Uhhhhh..."Republican Amnesia?"

_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

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#27082 - 03/03/10 10:22 AM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Bogus_bill]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
More from TPM

Quote:
Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) was on Fox News this morning and called reconciliation a way to "railroad the American people and the Congress." This is the same Judd Gregg who took to the Senate floor in 2005 to defend reconciliation as merely a "rule of the Senate" that allows for a simple majority vote. Video after the jump.


And even more.

Quote:
On April 16, 2001, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) took to Fox News to boast about the GOP's first major use of the budget reconciliation process in the Bush-era. "I think we can do a reconciliation bill that'll have an overwhelming number of senators and congresspeople voting for this $1.3 trillion to $1.6 trillion tax cut," he said.

Today, he has a somewhat different take.

"To impose the will of some Democrats and to circumvent bipartisan opposition, President Obama seems to be encouraging Congress to use the "reconciliation" process, an arcane budget procedure, to ram through the Senate a multitrillion-dollar health-care bill that raises taxes, increases costs and cuts Medicare to fund a new entitlement we can't afford," Hatch writes in a Washington Post op-ed today. "This is attractive to proponents because it sharply limits debate and amendments to a mere 20 hours and would allow passage with only 51 votes (as opposed to the 60 needed to overcome a procedural hurdle). But the Constitution intends the opposite process, especially for a bill that would affect one-sixth of the American economy."


There are a number of Congressional republicans lying about "reconciliation", a canard the WSJ editorial board is please to propagate.

Do the likes of Hatch and Gregg do not realize that their historical positions and comments aren't a matter of public record and that no one will go looking for them?
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Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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#27085 - 03/03/10 12:32 PM Re: Abuse of Power [Re: Turnow]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
Quote:
Former Senate parliamentarian Robert Dove on reconciliation: ""Reconciliation has been used a lot. And I would never use the term illegitimate with regard to reconciliation. It has been used starting in 1980 for very large, major bills. And it is a way, of course, of getting around the problem of the Senate filibuster." See the video.


Kevin Drum passes on a report by Ben Stein.

Quote:
In a display of chutzpah extreme even by modern conservative standards, Sam Stein reports that Republicans have begun a campaign to "cast doubt" on the impartiality of Senate Parliamentarian Alan Frumin. Why is this so brazen? Because they're the ones who hired him in the first place:

Quote:
Frumin was elevated to the post by Republican leadership in 2001, in part because he had a reputation for adhering to institutional mores rather than personal ideology. At the time, Majority Leader Trent Lott said he was confident Frumin could do the job, having known him for many years.

....In May 2001, Republican leadership fired Frumin's predecessor, Robert Dove, after he issued a series of rulings that complicated their efforts to pass aspects of the Bush tax cuts and budget proposals through reconciliation. Dove had decided it was inappropriate for money intended for natural disaster relief to be considered through budgetary rules — and he was summarily axed.


Nickel summary: Republicans hired Frumin in 2001 specifically because they thought he might issue friendlier rulings to Republicans. Now they're afraid he's turned on them.


Stunning hypocrisy and dishonesty emanating from some republican congresspersons. Fire the parliamentarian when his rulings don't support efforts to improperly utilize the reconciliation process, hire a parliamentarian perceived to more malleable, and then turn on him because his rulings don't go your way.


Edited by Turnow (03/03/10 12:37 PM)
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