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#27098 - 03/03/10 06:33 PM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: Turnow]
Geezer Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1196
Loc: Aberdeen, WA
Originally Posted By: Turnow
[quote]
Dee Brown's book Hear the Lonesome Whistle Blow


How about Railroads and Clearcuts by Derrick Jensen and George Draffan?
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A world without workers is impossible. A world without capitalists is necessary.

– World Federation of Labor

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#27099 - 03/03/10 06:49 PM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: Geezer]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
I've never heard of it, but I'll check it out. Knowing the story of how George Weyerhauser came to buy I don't know how many acres of rich Cascade MT timberland form Jim Hill, the Empire Builder, who obtained the timberland through a Congressional railroad grant, I can imagine.

Thanks for the tip.
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Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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#27100 - 03/03/10 06:50 PM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: Geezer]
Bogus_bill Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2508
Loc: SMA Mexico
Quote:
Does my assertion about the present have have less legitimacy because I have not acknowledged the lineage of greed and corruption throughout our history?


I think how it works is that if a past administration or, in this case, the past itself has had a worse bunch of villains then we are sort of okay.

That is really grasping for something to feel good about.


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Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

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#27101 - 03/03/10 06:54 PM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: Bogus_bill]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
Quote:
I think how it works is that if a past administration or, in this case, the past itself has had a worse bunch of villains then we are sort of okay.

That is really grasping for something to feel good about.


Have you read this thread? If so, you missed the point, which has been reiterated at least three times.


Edited by Turnow (03/03/10 06:56 PM)
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Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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#27103 - 03/03/10 07:15 PM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: Turnow]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3671

Quote:
I disagreed, noting that the USA is less politically corrupt than it has ever been,



And I'd like to see that "note" backed up by statistical facts.
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"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#27105 - 03/03/10 07:48 PM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: ikayak]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
Fine, you disagree.


Edited by Turnow (03/03/10 07:48 PM)
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Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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#27106 - 03/03/10 07:54 PM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: Turnow]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3671

No...not fine. I didn't agree OR DISagree.

You made the assertion.
Can you back it up with proof?
Or is it only your personal opinion/perception?
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#27108 - 03/03/10 08:48 PM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: Geezer]
funkycamper Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
Originally Posted By: Geezer

Yes, yes I'm aware of said past but I don't fathom what you are trying to tell me. Is it that that kind of past is a thing of the past? Is it that we studied that past and now have a rosy present because it isn't being repeated? Is it that we still have corruption but it's tolerable now? Did the leopard change its spots? Does my assertion about the present have have less legitimacy because I have not acknowledged the lineage of greed and corruption throughout our history?


I just don't think this period in history is the worst. And there are more laws in place, there is more transparency, scrutiny is even more vigilant. Just the fact that people have more ways to investigate and get the word out via the web raises this scrutiny to a whole new level.

I'm not saying corruption doesn't still exist and I believe we should always be vigilant against it but, really, I don't think it's as bad as you think it is.

As Turnow said...we disagree and that's OK. smile
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"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark

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#27109 - 03/04/10 12:36 AM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: funkycamper]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3671

Quote:
I just don't think this period in history is the worst.


You sure about that?
Let's look at just one little pea in the political pod:

Originally Posted By: Judicial Watch
A major U.S. city long known as a hotbed of pay-to-play politics infested with clout and patronage has seen nearly 150 employees, politicians and contractors get convicted of corruption in the last five decades.

Chicago has long been distinguished for its pandemic of public corruption, but actual cumulative figures have never been offered like this. The astounding information is featured in a lengthy report published by one of Illinois’s biggest public universities.

Cook County, the nation’s second largest, has been a “dark pool of political corruption” for more than a century, according to the informative study conducted by the University of Illinois at Chicago, the city’s largest public college. The report offers a detailed history of corruption in the Windy City beginning in 1869 when county commissioners were imprisoned for rigging a contract to paint City Hall.

It’s downhill from there, with a plethora of political scandals that include 31 Chicago alderman convicted of crimes in the last 36 years and more than 140 convicted since 1970. The scams involve bribes, payoffs, padded contracts, ghost employees and whole sale subversion of the judicial system, according to the report.

Elected officials at the highest levels of city, county and state government—including prominent judges—were the perpetrators and they worked in various government locales, including the assessor’s office, the county sheriff, treasurer and the President’s Office of Employment and Training. The last to fall was renowned political bully Isaac Carothers, who just a few weeks ago pleaded guilty to federal bribery and tax charges.

In the last few years alone several dozen officials have been convicted and more than 30 indicted for taking bribes, shaking down companies for political contributions and rigging hiring. Among the convictions were fraud, violating court orders against using politics as a basis for hiring city workers and the disappearance of 840 truckloads of asphalt earmarked for city jobs.

A few months ago the city’s largest newspaper revealed that Chicago aldermen keep a secret, taxpayer-funded pot of cash (about $1.3 million) to pay family members, campaign workers and political allies for a variety of questionable jobs. The covert account has been utilized for decades by Chicago lawmakers but has escaped public scrutiny because it’s kept under wraps.

Judicial Watch has extensively investigated Chicago corruption, most recently the conflicted ties of top White House officials to the city, including Barack and Michelle Obama as well as top administration officials like Chief of Staff Rahm Emanual and Senior Advisor David Axelrod. In November Judicial Watch sued Chicago Mayor Richard Daley's office to obtain records related to the president’s failed bid to bring the Olympics to the city.
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"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#27111 - 03/04/10 07:11 AM Re: Teabagger whining [Re: ikayak]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
Quote:
You made the assertion.
Can you back it up with proof?
Or is it only your personal opinion/perception?


Who else's opinion would I be posting? I think I've made it quite clear in my posts that it is my "perception".
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Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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