#28707 - 05/01/10 11:34 AM
Re: Defending the Constitution?
[Re: ikayak]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3816
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
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As in knowing a few law enforcement officers, local included, I generally trust them to uphold the law in a lawful manner.
And when the law itself is unlawful? The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.I guess you, like the Arizona legislature, feel there's some magic way to detect illegal aliens on sight.
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#28723 - 05/02/10 09:40 AM
Re: Defending the Constitution?
[Re: harborknight]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3673
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I am not speaking from an ivory tower. I lived in the South Africa that has now thankfully faded into history, where a black man or woman could be grabbed off the street and thrown in jail for not having his or her documents on their person. And not one word about the "kill the Boer" campaign in SA. Shocker. Not.
_________________________
"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.
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#28726 - 05/02/10 11:08 AM
Re: Defending the Constitution?
[Re: ikayak]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3816
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
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And not one word about the "kill the Boer" campaign in SA.
Shocker. Not.
And the corresponding action from the Republican Party has been....?
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#28728 - 05/02/10 11:33 AM
Re: Defending the Constitution?
[Re: ikayak]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3486
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I am not speaking from an ivory tower. I lived in the South Africa that has now thankfully faded into history, where a black man or woman could be grabbed off the street and thrown in jail for not having his or her documents on their person. And not one word about the "kill the Boer" campaign in SA. Shocker. Not. That cycle of violence faded into history BECAUSE of Tutu and Mandela. It would have been very easy for the black majority to take their revenge on white South Africans. Instead, the first thing Mandela did was institute the truth and reconciliation commission. I recently built a computer controlled router based on plans developed by by a person from South Africa. How South Africa (socially) got where they are is a fascinating and optimistic story.
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It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras
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#28730 - 05/02/10 01:21 PM
Re: Defending the Constitution?
[Re: Bogus_bill]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
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The Mexican cartels violence has spilled over the borders making parts of Arizona a drug battleground. If the police did not suspect illegals in this area they wouldn't be very good police since experience has shown them time and time again who does the smuggling. According to The Arizona Republic Violence is not up on Arizona border. NOGALES, Ariz. - Assistant Police Chief Roy Bermudez shakes his head and smiles when he hears politicians and pundits declaring that Mexican cartel violence is overrunning his Arizona border town.
"We have not, thank God, witnessed any spillover violence from Mexico," Bermudez says emphatically. "You can look at the crime stats. I think Nogales, Arizona, is one of the safest places to live in all of America." Another popular myth, proliferated by folks with agendas, bites the dust. The entire front page of The Republic today was consumed by an editorial on the subject of the need for immigration reform and gutless, grandstanding politicians. The AP reports. PHOENIX – Arizona's largest newspaper criticized U.S. Sens. John McCain and Jon Kyl and a host of other elected officials in a rare front-page editorial Sunday, saying the politicians have failed to find solutions to illegal immigration.
The state has become the target of calls for boycotts since adopting a law that requires local and state law enforcement officers to question people about their immigration status if there's reason to suspect they're in the country illegally.
"The federal government is abdicating its duty on the border. Arizona politicians are pandering to public fear," The Arizona Republic said in a full-page editorial. "The result is a state law that intimidates Latinos while doing nothing to curb illegal immigration."
Doug MacEachern, an editorial writer for the Republic, said the newspaper has put editorials on the front page over the years but this was the first time one filled the front page.
"It's of sufficient importance that we thought it required something very over-the-top to grab people's attention," he told The Associated Press on Sunday.
Edited by Turnow (05/02/10 01:24 PM)
_________________________
Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.
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#28735 - 05/02/10 06:25 PM
Re: Defending the Constitution?
[Re: Lumberjack]
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old hand
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 822
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That cycle of violence faded into history BECAUSE of Tutu and Mandela. And because of FW de Klerk. While I don't disagree with anything Archbishop Tutu wrote, he needs to get his own house in order before discussing immigration.
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#28737 - 05/02/10 11:08 PM
Re: Defending the Constitution?
[Re: Wally B]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
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Huh, Wally? You're comparing mobs who are being sought and prosecuted by South African law enforcement when caught to a bad law written and passed by a legislature and signed by a governor? Seriously? Gosh, if that's the standard, then the US will NEVER have the right to comment about anything other countries do as our house is definitely not in order either. Or are you saying politicians are equal to a criminal mob? 
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
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#28738 - 05/03/10 06:45 AM
Re: Defending the Constitution?
[Re: funkycamper]
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old hand
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 822
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Huh, Wally? You're comparing mobs who are being sought and prosecuted by South African law enforcement when caught to a bad law written and passed by a legislature and signed by a governor? Seriously? I'm contrasting the street level response to illegal immigration. In SA they formed mobs, in AZ they supported a law. It may be a bad law, but it is law nonetheless, with stated objectives and penalties, subject to judicial and legislative review. I doubt it will lead to lynchings. Also, Tutu compares the requirement that non-citizens carry documents to "police waking a man up in the middle of the night and hauling him off to jail for not having his documents on his person while he slept" under Apartheid. That is not a fair comparison. Control of borders, and who crosses them, is a legitimate function of government. Creating and maintaining Apartheid, was not. Or are you saying politicians are equal to a criminal mob? I think that was Mark Twain.
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