Page 4 of 16 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 15 16 >
Topic Options
#28755 - 05/03/10 04:38 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: Bogus_bill]
Turnow Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 1950
Loc: Xalapa, Veracruz Mexico
Quote:
I have read similar reports but that statement always brings the question to mind, "If we give in to people who threaten violence if we don't give them what they want, what is law enforcement about?"


Our public policy has created the criminals, just as it did during alcohol prohibition. All prohibition does is raise the price of a product to the point folks will risk their freedom and/or lives to cash in on the black market enabled by prohibition.

All that aside, the Colombia experience indicates that violence increases when a crackdown is initiated, but subsides once the resulting industry shakeout is completed.

The organized criminals trading in illicit drugs and humans constitute an industry. The Mexican government's captures and killings of leaders of various organized crime families, has resulted in a war for market share. The Zetas, initially lured by organized criminals from the Mexican military special forces to work as organized crime enforcers, are now waging war against various crime organizations for control of those organizations.

But I agree with you, Calderon's approach, I think from the general welfare perspective, is superior to the approaches of his PRI predecessors, which were to either ignore or go onto the payrolls of the organized criminals.
_________________________
Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

Top
#28758 - 05/03/10 07:53 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: Lumberjack]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3674

Quote:
That cycle of violence faded into history BECAUSE of Tutu and Mandela


And Julius Malema is reviving it.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#28759 - 05/03/10 07:57 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: Bogus_bill]
harborknight Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: AberVegas
_________________________
"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong." -Carl Sagan

Top
#28761 - 05/03/10 08:04 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3674
Originally Posted By: Beavis H. Christ
Originally Posted By: ikayak

And not one word about the "kill the Boer" campaign in SA.

Shocker. Not.


South Africa's ruling ANC has ordered its youth leader to stop inflammatory comments after he was accused of stoking racial tension by singing a song from the era of the struggle against apartheid with the words "Kill the Boer".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...e-Boer-ban.html

And the corresponding action from the Republican Party has been....?


You need to update your sources.

Quote:
ANC Will Not Discipline Malema
By Reuters
20 April 2010

South African president Jacob Zuma has decided to not discipline Julius Malema after a Monday meeting to discuss the ANCYL's recent public controversies, a youth league source tells Reuters.

Malema has come under heavy criticism for his repeated singing of "Kill the Boer," an old ANC struggle song banned by a South African high court as hate speech, and his throwing out a White news reporter from a press conference in a racially-charged and expletive-laden outburst.

"His comments were made on behalf of the Youth League and not the ANC. We are independent and if there needs to be any disciplinary hearing it should be conducted by us," the youth league source said, who attended the Monday meeting.

The source also told Reuters that "Malema's comments were made on behalf of the Youth League and individuals should not be singled out," indicating the group is going to stand behind their leader.

The ANC says it is still thinking about what can be done with Malema.

"The request for us to pronounce on what action will be taken, is premature, the ANC is still considering what to do," ANC Deputy Secretary General Thandi Modise told reporters on Tuesday.

Modise distanced Malema from Zuma by adding, "Whatever Malema does, does not make Jacob Zuma a strong or weak president. The president should be judged by his own performance."

Copyright 2010 Reuters


Malema is on record saying that he intends to continue singing the song.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#28762 - 05/03/10 08:48 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3674
Originally Posted By: Beavis H. Christ
Originally Posted By: ikayak

As in knowing a few law enforcement officers, local included, I generally trust them to uphold the law in a lawful manner.


And when the law itself is unlawful?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I guess you, like the Arizona legislature, feel there's some magic way to detect illegal aliens on sight.



1.A law becomes unlawful when a State Supreme Court or the United States Supreme Court says it is. Until then, law enforcement is sworn to uphold the law once it is in effect.

2.As for the Fourth Amendment, I believe there has been an assumption, but never a Supreme Court ruling specifically stating that aliens in this country illegally are afforded Fourth Amendment rights.

3.Why not? Illegal aliens magically appear in this country without documentation.

_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#28774 - 05/04/10 07:20 AM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3816
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak

2.As for the Fourth Amendment, I believe there has been an assumption, but never a Supreme Court ruling specifically stating that aliens in this country illegally are afforded Fourth Amendment rights.


*sigh*

What about people who aren't illegals whose papers are demanded anyway? The point is that people who are American citizens will be subjected to unreasonable searches under this law. Because there is no way to tell an "illegal alien" on sight. We're not talking about illegal aliens being extended any rights. We're talking about American citizens having their rights violated.

Top
#28780 - 05/04/10 12:38 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3674

Often legal law-abiding citizens are asked to show ID. I had to show legal ID to get a flippin' library card. Big whoop. I always carry ID with me. It's the sensible thing to do.

And if I am doing something that arouses probable cause suspicion on the part of law enforcement, I hope to shout they had better earn my tax dollars and stop to question me.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#28784 - 05/04/10 04:56 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: ikayak]
funkycamper Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
Good grief. You won't be thrown in jail if you don't have ID to get a flippin' library card.

And I'd bet my last dime that you don't carry anything proving you're a US citizen.

And the Arizona law does not require anybody doing anything suspicious to arouse probable cause. It just requires that you exist. Kinda hard to enter Arizona without existing, isn't it? But that's all it takes.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark

Top
#28786 - 05/04/10 05:32 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3816
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak

Often legal law-abiding citizens are asked to show ID. I had to show legal ID to get a flippin' library card. Big whoop. I always carry ID with me. It's the sensible thing to do.


Ah, the "I have nothing to hide" argument.

Supposing you're walking down the street, minding your own business, Mr. "I have olive skin," and a policeman demands to see proof you are a citizen? I guess you won't mind spending the night in jail while they make sure.

Top
#28790 - 05/04/10 06:08 PM Re: Defending the Constitution? [Re: funkycamper]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3674
Originally Posted By: funkycamper
Good grief. You won't be thrown in jail if you don't have ID to get a flippin' library card.

And I'd bet my last dime that you don't carry anything proving you're a US citizen.

And the Arizona law does not require anybody doing anything suspicious to arouse probable cause. It just requires that you exist. Kinda hard to enter Arizona without existing, isn't it? But that's all it takes.


1. But I won't get a library card. Weren't you taught that If you don't play by the rules, you should expect the consequences? If aliens haven't broken the law, they won't be "thrown in jail", either.

2. HA! Hand over that last dime. I carry a copy of my birth certificate with my driver's license.

3. You are wrong. Read the law...or at least the CNN article I linked.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
Page 4 of 16 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 15 16 >


Who's Online
7 Registered (funkycamper, GSDlover, Lumberjack, 4 invisible), 52 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Ads
Shout Box

Newest Members
cocorala163, jimysakura, rtdjtyjytj, marcilly, rslijetgold
357 Registered Users
May
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31

Monitored by TechTell