#28979 - 05/10/10 05:34 AM
Prayer and federally funded meals
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2509
Loc: SMA Mexico
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From WSBTV.com: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals
Posted: 1:55 pm EDT May 8, 2010 PORT WENTWORTH, Ga. -- Preston Blackwelder proudly showed off a painting of his grandmother that had hung next to the front door of his Port Wentworth home.
She was the woman who led him to God, Blackwelder said Friday.
And with that firm religious footing, Blackwelder said it would be preposterous to stop praying before meals at Port Wentworth's Ed Young Senior Citizens Center near Savannah because of a federal guideline.
"She would say pray anyway," Blackwelder said of his grandmother. "She'd say don't listen."
But Senior Citizens Inc. officials said Friday the meals they are contracted by the city to provide to Ed Young visitors are mostly covered with federal money, which ushers in the burden of separating church and state.
On Thursday, the usual open prayer before meals at the center was traded in for a moment of silence.
The dilemma is being hashed out by the Port Wentworth city attorney, said Mayor Glenn "Pig" Jones.
Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said.
"We can't scoff at their rules," he said of federal authorities. "It's a part of the operational guidelines."
Rutherford said the moment of silence was introduced to protect that funding. He said although the change may have been misinterpreted, perhaps his company could have done a better job selling it.
"It's interpreted that we're telling people that they can't pray, but we aren't saying that," he said. "We're asking them to pray to themselves. Have that moment of silence."
Mayor Jones said he was outraged by the change and has promised to find a solution.
"It was one of the hardest things I ever did as mayor is to look those people in the eyes and ask them to be patient with me and honor their God in a moment of silence until I can have a resolution to this," Jones said. "For me to look at their eyes and tell them they can't thank God for their food, it's unheard of - I can't take it."
Jones said he flirted with the idea of ending a contract the city has with Senior Citizens Inc.
"Like one lady said, 'You can stop me from speaking, but you can't stop me from praying what's in my heart,"' he said. "But the best answer right now is that we're trying to get the best information possible and legal council is looking at what would happen if we continued to pray."
Blackwelder said the center's already fragile visitors have been rattled.
"This is, in my view, an unnecessary intrusion into the private lives of individuals. It's a bad place to draw a line in the sand." Does the argument regarding church and state get any dumber than this?
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Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.
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#28981 - 05/10/10 06:27 AM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: Bogus_bill]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
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Sounds like everybody is over-reacting to me. Especially "Pig".
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
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#28982 - 05/10/10 06:45 AM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: Bogus_bill]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4781
Loc: State of Euphoria
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Does the argument regarding church and state get any dumber than this? Nope. That they thought it was ok to have a spoken grace at the federally funded daily meal is incredibly dumb. To have a "moment of silence" is pretty silly and unecessary, but not dumb. Thinking they can't pray on their own at any time is simply downright stupid.
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You can't know how good an Oreo cookie is unless you've tasted lima beans.
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#28983 - 05/10/10 07:46 AM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: Stash]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2509
Loc: SMA Mexico
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Thinking they can't pray on their own at any time is simply downright stupid When you are old and retired all time is your own time. This isn't a work situation. These are old people getting a federally subsidized meal. Whatever they do normally they should continue doing including saying grace. This is so stupid because you can just keep going with it. Federally funded welfare could just as easily be attacked. Gas bought with federal money to go to church would be a good starting point. There is a point where some common sense has to be used. No offense but I am thinking principles are more important to you than the welfare of old people. I used to live up the Wynoochee Valley. When it was foggy during the morning hours I would drive with my lights on bright to make sure people could see me. Mostly this was alright but occasionally there would be a car blinking his lights because he could see mine were on bright. It didn't bother me because it was daylight outside and brights are not bright. The rule running through these few idiot's heads about dimming your brights for oncoming traffic superseded common sense. "It is a rule, dammit, and you gotta follow it." probably was buzzing through their hard heads. Visibility...nah. I am not very religious and posted this under the religion category because of the topic but since it is here, I bet Pharisees were a lot like that. Ilky might be better suited to discuss that. Does it really matter if old people say grace over federally funded food?
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.
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#28984 - 05/10/10 07:58 AM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: Bogus_bill]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4781
Loc: State of Euphoria
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No offense but I am thinking principles are more important to you than the welfare of old people. "No offense"? Really? It's not like I'm telling Dead Baby Jokes (they stick to the pitchforks) or something. Does it really matter if old people say grace over federally funded food? Not at all. That was my point. Just like in school, any senior or student can say a prayer anytime they choose. But, an open prayer for all prior to the federally funded meal?... nope. Don't be too silly with this one. It even more silly than Beav's support of the Principal suspending the flag wearing students.
_________________________
You can't know how good an Oreo cookie is unless you've tasted lima beans.
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#28986 - 05/10/10 08:50 AM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: Stash]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2509
Loc: SMA Mexico
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Saying grace is not a solitary event and not a moment of silence.
My only problem with saying grace is that when food is sat in front of me I start eating. It is awkward for me to wait that extra minute when my food is getting cold and my fork is calling for me to use it.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.
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#28988 - 05/10/10 01:57 PM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: Bogus_bill]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3816
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
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These are old people getting a federally subsidized meal. Key sentence, that.
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#28998 - 05/10/10 05:13 PM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: Bogus_bill]
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veteran
Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: AberVegas
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Say grace, if you choose.. I don't think you need a moment of silence for that, and especially don't need a designated time for that. I don't see why saying grace isn't or shouldn't be a solitary event. Are you praying to God, and thanking him for the meal? Or are you trying to show everyone else in the room how grateful you are to God?
This story should be quickly clarified with the company providing the meals. And the seniors. Is it dumb? Yeah. But I have a feeling that this story is getting played up. I also think it's disgusting to try to scare seniors into thinking that they can't pray. But, you know... Seniors vote.
_________________________
"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong." -Carl Sagan
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#29003 - 05/10/10 06:37 PM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: harborknight]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2509
Loc: SMA Mexico
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If the whole story comes out it would be interesting to listen to. I don't think we got the whole story. I will be surprised if we ever do.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.
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#29006 - 05/10/10 06:58 PM
Re: Prayer and federally funded meals
[Re: Bogus_bill]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4781
Loc: State of Euphoria
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If the whole story comes out it would be interesting to listen to. I don't think we got the whole story. I will be surprised if we ever do. What part(s) do you think are missing?
_________________________
You can't know how good an Oreo cookie is unless you've tasted lima beans.
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