I will bold and enlarge the part of your post you need to take note of:






Here, let me help you out: you skipped right over the words "MY BRETHREN".


So who are Christ's brethren?

Matthew 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

Matthew 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.



And what is the will of Jesus' Father?

John 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.



So is KSM Christ's brethren? Obviously not.



And oh, btw, do not insult Jesus by calling him a Buddha.

After your Buddha buddy died, he was fire fried into ashes, never to physically return to earth.

Jesus on the other hand, died, rose from the grave, started a fire, and fried fish for his brethren.

*yawn*

If you really must rationalize your own blood thirst, go for it. Jesus, on the other hand, was not a torturer or an advocate of. In fact, he died from it.



Highest possible compliment, actually. Although technically Jesus was a Bodhisattva, as opposed to a mere Buddha, so I'll try and be more specific.



lmao

10,000 Buddhas have appeared at least, and every one of us--even you, Iky--harbors the potential to be one.

There is, for example, the story of Angulimala, the serial killer who--after encountering Buddha and hearing the Dharma--became a Buddha himself.

I don't picture you as wearing a necklace of fingers, as Angulimala was when he encountered Buddha--more cowering in a darkened room eating Cheetos and twizzling your tweeter while watching torture porn--but even you are not beyond hope.

Yawn all you want.
The fact is that Jesus identified His "brethren" as His disciples and KSM does not make the cut.
Neither do you for that matter.
But as long you're alive here on earth, there's still hope for you.



Neither your Buddhas nor Bodhisattvas physically die then physically rise from the grave and cook fish for their disciples. Jesus did. (John 21)

Neither will your Buddhas and Bodhisattvas judge people and cast those who did not trust in them for salvation from sin and death into eternal torture. Jesus will.

Matthew 25: 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

And your Buddhas and Bodhisattvas did not create the universe. Jesus did. (John 1:3)

The fact is that you are taking individual words out of context and using them to justify your own blood lust.

The whole series of verses goes like this:

25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

So if I am to follow your logic here, the only people in the world who are supposed to feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, clothe the naked, etc. are the actual disciples of Jesus? Jesus is NOT, according to you, advocating universal charity here?

Eliminate the words "my brethren," and the message is still the same--"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Jesus is clearly saying "show kindness and give aid to those who need it and it will be as if you gave aid and kindness to me."

Is torture "kindness"? Does the admonition to love your enemies include only people it is convenient to like? Did the man who died under the most extreme of tortures really, truly think torture is acceptable under any circumstances?

Acknowledging the religious hooey, isn't it written "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"?

Besides paying taxes, I think the authors were intending to instruct the masses to follow Ceaser's laws. The law is "Thou shalt not torture." By international standards... agreed to by America (our "Caesar"), waterboarding is torture.

A lesson in Holy Bible exegesis:

First of all, you don't "eliminate" any word that Jesus spoke.

Second:

Who is Jesus speaking to?
His disciples. (Matthew 24:1-2 and 26:1)

Teaching what?
The signs of His Second coming and the end of the world. (Matthew 24:3)

When did He teach this?
Two days before Passover right before His crucifixion. (Matthew 26:2)

Where did His teach this?
On the Mt. of Olives. (Mtthew 24:3)


Now, take a look at the very first verse you posted:


25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

Who are "the righteous", Beavis?

Those in right-standing with God through faith.

Jesus tells you in previous verses 33 and 34:
His sheep He has placed at His right hand.

The correct exegesis of those verses you keep posting is:

Jesus telling His disciples/brethren
when His disciples/brethren care for "the least" (like the beggar Lazarus in Luke 16:20)
His disciples/brethren are, in effect, caring for Him.




Well, let's look at that "any circumstance" thing you speak of.

How about the circumstance of torture and murder of pre-born babies?
The average pre-born baby age of George Tiller's innocent victims was 27 weeks.
You think Jesus would approve of the torture and murder of pre-born babies?

I don't, but we will know for certain when He returns, won't we?

But just what kind of twisted logic condemns the limited water-boarding of an evil, confessed torturer and killer for information that may save countless innocent lives, but advocates for the torture and murder of countless viable, pre-born, innocent babies?

At any rate, we know that Jesus approves of the eternal torture of those who have not submitted to Him on earth as Lord and Savior. (Matthew 25:41)

Be warned, Beavis, and do not be deceived!

There's that reading comprehension problem again.



Okay. So in Iky Christianity, nobody is ever supposed to show any kindness to a stranger, ever, except the disciples of Jesus, and they've all been dead for 2,000 years. Which explains a lot of your philosophy, frankly.




Thus confirming what I just said. Jesus wants you to care for everyone, because in showing them kindness you are showing HIM kindness. Iky Jesus, on the other hand, says only 12 guys he was speaking to directly at that time need follow such a rule, and nobody else.



Oh, let's DO. But can we do so without changing the subject and avoiding the question?



I guess not. Game over!

Beavis, Jesus Christ is teaching that His disciples/brethren are to care for His disciples/brethren.

Those are His words in the scripture you cited. Period.

When His disciples/brethren care for other disciples/brethren they are caring for Him because His disciples/brethren constitute His Body, the Body of Christ, because He lives in us and we live in Him.

His disciples are those who follow Him.
A disciple of Christ is one who (1) believes his doctrine, (2) rests on his sacrifice, (3) imbibes his spirit, and (4) imitates his example (Mat 10:24; Luk 14:26,27,33; Jhn 6:69).

Obviously, Christ has disciples/brethren on earth today.

KSM is not a member of Christ's Body, so showing kindness to KSM is NOT in effect, showing kindness to Christ. Christ does not live in KSM and KSM does not live in Christ.

Unless God has mercy upon him and gives him the gift of saving faith, KSM is toast. Figuratively and literally. And even that does not excuse him from reaping on earth what he has sown on earth.

Btw, he hasn't been waterboarded for over 5 years. Write letters to someone who cares or let it go.

Yep. Same words that you can't seem to get through your head no matter how thoroughly and carefully they are explained to you.



Nobody's sent any Jews to the gas chambers since 1945. I guess we should let that go, too?

I could go through your posts "eliminating words" as you suggest we do with Christ's, and change your meaning, too.

Point out to me in Matthew 25 where Jesus speaks to caring for His non-brethren.




No, we should hang on to every flippin' atrocity ever committed against any man, woman, and child since the world began, because it does so much damn good and prevents so many more atrocities and wars against humanity.

We should be like an ulgy old dog with a nasty bone about them and post and post and post about them on every public message board in cyber existence until our fingers bleed, because it does so much damn good and prevents so many more atrocities and wars against humanity.

Or we should do it because it gives us perverse pleasure in stirring and re-stirring and re-stirring the same tired old proverbial pot.

Point out to me in the parable of the Good Samaritan where Jesus says you should only care for people who believe as you do.



What's the Santayana quote? They who forget history are doomed to repeat it?

We should remember every atrocity precisely because it prevents more atrocities.




So let's forget about the torture and death of Jesus, then.

Hey, if I find KSM lying on the side of my street, beaten to a bloody pulp, I'll put him on a donkey and take him up the road, straight to Rick Scott's house for care. Promise. BTW, my tax dollars are already paying for KSM's bed, clothing, Koran, prayer rug, food, medical care, and Game Boy.



There's a difference between remembering history and picking and choosing which history to harp on merely as a political party weapon of score-keeping.

And no, remembering past atrocities has not prevented wars, massacres, genocides, torture, and other atrocities throughout history.



You are the one that keeps bringing it up.
I concentrate on Christ's Atonement, Bodily Resurrection, and Ascension into Heaven.
Anyone can be tortured to death.

Otherwise, you're under no obligation as a Christian?

That's new and novel. I've never heard anyone say a Christian can ignore the plight of people he knows are being mistreated because it's not happening right in front of him. I also don't recall Jesus saying "love your enemies unless they really, really hate you"...rather the opposite, in fact.

Sorry, Iky. Despite what you may think, Jesus would not have fit in with and approved of the prison guards at Abu Ghraib...or Guantanamo...or the Lubyanka...or Buchenwald, for that matter.

When one suffers, all suffer.

Life is suffering. Suffering is more than physical or even emotional pain. Torture creates suffering for both the tortured and the torturer.

But there is a way out of suffering.

Funny, I don't recall scripture verses where Jesus condemned the Romans for the atrocities they were committing against their prisoners.

Cite them for me.

Or maybe their lashings and crucifixions were not torturous.

Or maybe Jesus was not someone who was into condemnation, and preferred teaching with positive examples, like...

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Matthew 5:7

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39



Perhaps he was even following his own advice from the very first verse of Matthew 7. He did, on the other hand, counsel his own followers against the way of violence in no uncertain terms (Matthew 26:52), and told a bunch of soldiers they should "do violence to no man" (Luke 3:14).

Then of course there's Luke 6:36 ("Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful"), Romans 12:19-21, the verses go on and on and on and on.

I Thessalonians 5:15 "See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men."

2Timothy 2:24 "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,"

Titus 3:2-4 "To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another."

...sounds to me like you need that last one most of all, Iky. What is an advocate of torture except "living in malice...hateful, and hating one another"?

I would note also that in the most famous sermons of Jesus, he uses, again, positive examples. He doesn't say "damned are the warmongers." He says "blessed are the peacemakers."

That's the kind of guy Jesus was.

Rom 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;

Rom 13:4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

So your God loves torture? Your God approves of torture?

Jesus clearly didn't, but whatever, sicko.

At least the Aztecs had the decency to not pretend theirs was a god of mercy and love.

Not bothering to look up the verse, but didn't Jesus pray to God, the Father, "forgive them for they know not what they do" about those who were crucifying him, stabbed him in his side, and gambled for his robe? Does that sound like God the Avenger? Not to me.

God had hidden the truth about His Son from those who crucified Him. Someone had to crucify Jesus in order for scripture to be fulfilled and Christ's Bride to be redeemed. So yes, Jesus prayed for them to be forgiven the act because they did not know what they were doing at the time. It was only fair, don't you think?

So are you saying that you believe KSM did not know what he was doing when he beheaded Daniel Pearl, masterminded 9/11, or any of the other many terrorist atrocities against mankind he has committed?

No. But those who crucified Christ also crucified others. It's not like they were innocents. Yet Christ prayed for them. Interesting contrast, that's all.

No one except Jesus Christ who has walked the face of the earth is innocent.

It was a special circumstance because the truth had been hidden from them. In John 17:9 (right before He was taken away by the Roman soldiers) Jesus makes it clear that He is praying only for those God has given Him and not for the world.

I agree. It's all very interesting.

Yes, but I have a feeling we find different aspects interesting.

Jesus prayed for them to be forgiven...for fulfilling prophecy? Not for torturing him? If mental gymnastics were a sport, you'd be Olympic-caliber.

lmao

And if reading comprehension was a requirement for physical life, you'd be dead.




God had hidden from them who they were crucifying, until after Jesus had expired on the Cross.

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

No one believes Jesus is the Son of God until God chooses to reveal it to them. (Matthew 16:16-17)

Obviously God has so far chosen to leave you out of the loop.

Ah. So they didn't need to be forgiven for torturing?

You are one sick puppy, dude.

Hey, Beav...



You need a God Helmet!