Actually it started about you throwing around "tax" as if it made a difference what we called it. Like somehow "tax" was evil, but "fee" or "premium" or whatever wasn't.

Then you decided to make it about me, instead of about whether America's health insurance system is a gigantic waste of money in dire need of overhaul.

I pointed out that Japan spends less and gets better results. You said, in effect, that that's because there are fewer fat people in Japan, and since I'm fat, I should shut up and stop "ranting and raging."

Whereupon I pointed out a few cogent points. Like how, for example, I've never brought my own health into it, and don't have to personally experience something in order to see that it's a problem that needs fixing. And how the Japanese see a doctor on average 14 times a year. And how the only reason the Japanese system is seen as "unsustainable" is because the Japanese are living such long lives that the system is overburdened with the elderly.

Your apparent solution to this--at least the gist of your responses in this thread--is to let Americans die younger because it costs less and hell, they're fat and make bad choices anyway so they don't deserve to live.

The available Godwinisms here are plentiful. You want to ignore facts, in Iky Fantasyworld, fine. I would only remind you of the admonition as to who is to throw the first stone--and recommend deep introspection on your part, although I know the suggestion will fall on deaf ears.

so therefore, B.O. and his Administration are lying to us:




http://www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2009/r090727.htm

I am sincerely amazed.
I have been giving you too much credit.
I cannot believe you are totally and completely oblivious to the political point I was making.



If I were you I wouldn't bring my own health into either. If you are obese and complain about the high cost of health care and shorter US life expectancy, you are part of the problem you are complaining about.



Beavis...THAT'S NOTHING JAPAN BRAGS ABOUT! THEY SEE THAT AS A HUGE PROBLEM!!!




Look at what you are saying! They have a better system, they have universal health insurance coverage, and it's unsustainable!!! Hello? Anybody home? Huh? Think, McFly! Think!



Wow. You really do have a reading comprehension deficit, don't you?

Here's the deal, Beavis. The real deal.
I want you to be healthy in body, mind, heart, and spirit, while living a long, joyful, peace-filled life.



That is HILARIOUS coming from you.

Iky: Making a political point of people's health and wellbeing is precisely the point. It's evil.



I don't own any stock in insurance companies, and I am not an insurance company executive. Therefore I am not part of the problem. Your continued reliance on ad hominems only illustrates your childishness.




Ah. That's why there are so many articles out there from Japanese people complaining about their long lives. "Boy, we sure wish we could die sooner!"

Note, in the following chart, how countries where people visit the doctor more tend to have longer lives:





So...people should die sooner, because if they live longer it's too expensive to take care of them? The ONLY REASON IT'S CONSIDERED, note that word, CONSIDERED UNSUSTAINABLE IS BECAUSE IT'S WORKING AND THEY ARE LIVING LONGER.

THINK, IKY, THINK!

Or don't. I don't give a damn. You've proven your intellectual bankruptcy time and again here and now sunk to a new all-time low.

Agreed -- If we had Universal, Single Payer insurance, this would be the case, and we could continue our agreement.

I am not of support of a fat tax. However, I would entertain such concepts if we did get a Universal, single payer system.

So there should be no objection if B.O. is called President Evil then, because he continually tries to score political points using people's health and wellbeing, or lack thereof.



Oh...so it's insurance companies and their execs who are the problem. According to Gary Murrell this morning, it is now Obamacare that is the problem. And it's others who maintain an unhealthy weight who are part of the problem and burden, but not you?



So many parts to the problem, but Beavis plays no part in any of them.



Note in your "following chart" how many countries have a lower obesity rate than the United States. Hint: ALL of them.

Don't be foolish enough to pretend that a 30 pt. lower obesity rate has nothing to do with Japan's longer life expectancy. In provinces where the Japanese are eating a more Americanized diet and consequently obesity rates are RISING, their life expectancy is DEcreasing.

In Japan, many medications are filled for only a 4 day period. The patient is required to see the doctor again for each 4 day refill.

Now think of aalllllllll those people standing in long lines at Walmart pharmacies throughout the United States seeing their doctors every four days for refills. Yep, our rate of doctor visits would score sky high, too. Wow. Way to contain health care cost, Beavis.

Think, Beavis, Think!



Your posts indicate otherwise.



What was that you said about throwing stones?

BLAAAACK BLACK BLACKITTY



It's the entire for-profit American health insurance system that is the problem.



Gary is likely referring to the fact that the recently passed health insurance reform does not do away with the profit motive. Either way he is entitled to his opinion and you are still trolling without any real argument other than "HE'S BLACK! YOU'RE FAT" etc.



QED

You know nothing about me or my medical history--or anyone else who is overweight, for that matter--but you make the blanket assumption that it's all the fault of fat people. All of those immoral Americans, making poor choices, and they all deserve to live shorter lives so that insurance companies and investors can continue to extract their pound of flesh and contribute nothing to the national wellbeing.

I'm so glad we have shining examples of perfection like you to look up to, Iky. Please, be my guest, throw the first stone.



That's not why people go to the doctor so often in Japan, and it's not why Japan has so many more primary care doctors than specialists.

But you don't care about facts, because it's all the fault of the less-perfect! Useless eaters, the lot of them!

There is a British expression, "Jesus wept," that is especially apt in this instance.

OK, Iky.

In Japan the obesity rate is about 3.5 percent. In America, more like 30 percent.

So we should, by your logic, be spending 27 percent more on health care--after all, it's all the fault of the fatties, right? All those morally-deficient lunch buckets, me included, who lack your upright character and so on.

So what are the numbers, at least as of 2007?

USA per capita health care spending: $7290
Japan per capita health care spending: $2481

...and yet the Japanese have so many people living so much longer that the long-term expenses are becoming an issue?

Curiouser and curiouser!

Gee, maybe scapegoating your fellow citizens instead of looking for real answers isn't such a good idea!

But I know, Iky, you pray for all of us to be as perfect as only YOU are.

and also WHIIIITE WHITE WHITEITTY

Why do you hate whites, Beavis?
You never give white the equal billing it is entitled to.





...especially for those taking campaign money from the healthcare sector.





Nothing? I wouldn't say "nothing".
I've been face to face with you more than once;
was directly introduced to you in fact.
You're not much of an in-person social converser or group "kibitzer",
but I think it's fair to say that you leave an impression.






1. I've not said "it's all the fault of fat people", and

2. I've not made blanket assumptions. I've taken info from US government websites.

B.O.'s administration has said that obesity places a enormous burden on this country. Obesity is a leading cause in developing chronic disease, and treatment of chronic disease accounts for over 75% of national healthcare expenditures. Are you calling him a liar?

You want to reduce healthcare costs and lengthen life expectancy in the United States?
Reduce the incidence of chronic disease.
You want to reduce the incidence of chronic disease?
Reduce the incidence of obesity.
It doesn't get any more real than that.






I stated one of the reasons why people go to the doctor so often in Japan (prescription refills.) Another reason is that the government rate paid to doctors is paid on a per patient visit. Do the math.

The reason Japan has so many more primary care doctors than specialists (REAL, TRAINED specialists) is that the government fee and payment structure eliminates incentive to become a specialist. Not many Japanese doctors are board certified. Most have done just enough to get a basic license which is good for life.

Also in Japan, if you have a basic medical license, you can call yourself a cardiologist, gastroenterologist, neurologist, or any other medical "ologist". Some hospitals are owned and operated by one single doctor. Sometimes they act both as the surgeon and the anesthesiologist. Who holds them accountable? Japan doesn't have an active peer review and discipline system, nor a mandatory hospital accreditation process.

So...better healthcare system?

Here's a British expression: Don't be such a wally, Dave.




Obesity and aging, (and a very low birth rate - the US has almost twice as many babies born per capita) those are the biggies becoming huge healthcare issues for Japan. And then there's the fact that half the hospitals in Japan are in deep financial deficit.

But hey! They now have mandatory government fat screening in Japan for most of the population.
Too much "middle ground" and you're put into diet and exercise counseling.

And under NObamacare, by 2014, your doctor will be required to report your height, weight, and BMI.
The greasy handwriting is on the wall: government diet and exercise clinics coming to a neighborhood near you!

And it's really not so curious when you take a look at the bigger picture.
For instance:

# of organ transplants in the United States January-April of THIS year: 9,107 = 76 per day

# of organ transplants in Japan SINCE 1997: 81

And of course there's the cost factor of harvesting the organs.

Why would you deprive 9,107 people of organ transplants by trading our system for Japan's?
Why do you hate those needing and receiving transplants so much?

Gee, maybe trading your country's healthcare system for another country's instead of looking for real answers isn't such a good idea!


One interesting note: it appears that you don't follow "the Market", so just an fyi: 75% of Aflac's $18 billion revenue comes from policies supplementing work and government health insurance in Japan. Market penetration is expanding there. Just out today: Aflac's 2nd quarter profit rose 85% on a stronger yen.

Gotta love Japan.

You poor, poor oppressed white man.



Nah. You used "obese." Weasel.




Your blanket assumption is that the larger percentage of obese people in this country represents a failure of character on the part of the obese.

Anything to avoid looking at the real problem, which is a small but vocal percentage of the population, you included, that refuses to be part of the fabric of an actual American society, while loudly proclaiming themselves to be the epitome of American values.

That so many of you petty and arrogant idiots also claim to be Christians is both ironic and sad.

Last word to you, troll.