Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#30842 - 08/14/10 03:41 PM Obama and the Mosque
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
Obama is right. This country is based on religious freedom. Nevertheless he is a stupid @##%@ for even taking on this subject.

Quote:
“I would prefer the president be a little more of a politician and a little less of a college professor,” former Rep. Martin Frost (D-Tex.), who once ran the House Democratic campaign arm, wrote in POLITICO’s Arena. “While a defensible position, it will not play well in the parts of the country where Democrats need the most help.”

Democratic aides say that, at the very least, the president has again knocked his party's candidates off local messages and forced them to talk about a national issue that doesn't appear likely to play well with important swing voters.

"The main reaction is 'Why? Why now?’" said one House Democratic leadership aide. "It's just another day off message. There have been a lot of days off message."

The chief of staff to one politically vulnerable House Democrat said it "probably alienates a lot of independent voters" and "it's not a good issue to be talking about right now."

He said he suspects "there are a lot of (Democrats) who are spooked in tough districts today" and "a lot of Republicans licking their chops right now."


Our president can sure talk. It is shutting up he cannot do. The Republicans are celebrating.

"Muslims build mosques at the sites of their victories."

Powerful stuff in an election year.

_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
#30843 - 08/14/10 03:45 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4522
Loc: State of Euphoria
Most of those who cannot see that all religions are equal, and have a right to worship and build their temples to worship and that no "religion" took down those towers, build a radical ideology did, would never have voted for Obama anyway.

Did he need to take this on? Probably not. But, ducking the tough stuff hasn't seemed to have been his style.
_________________________
It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to. Jean-Luc Godard

Top
#30846 - 08/14/10 06:56 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
Wally B Online   content
old hand

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
"Muslims build mosques at the sites of their victories."



Like this one?


Top
#30848 - 08/14/10 07:16 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Wally B]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
Quote:
Like this one?


The quote came from a sign one of the protesters was carrying at the mosque site.

Nice looking mosque though.

The original story: link

The whole quote was: Muslim builds mosques at the site of conquests and victories.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
#30851 - 08/14/10 09:02 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

As far as I'm concerned, B.O. can keep yakking until the polls close 11.06.12.
The more he "lectures", the more people he P.O..
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30852 - 08/15/10 06:31 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
As a Republican from wayyyy back I can only say that they are not the people I would vote for unless I had to. I am hoping that party is going to change so I can be a Republican again.

What is going to happen, I believe, is that the Republicans are going to win back enough seats where they will finally have some say on what gets passed. That will force cooperation between parties or we will have to wait two years to make more changes.



_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
#30853 - 08/15/10 07:47 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Having been a Democrat wayyyy back, and working for my share of Democratic candidates, they are usually not the people I've voted for the past couple decades. As a Christian, Democrats have a couple ideological positions that I abhor.

I like the Republican values platform, but having been adamantly opposed to Nixon on a personal and political level, and many policies of Reagan, 41 and 43, as well as their staff and a few particular R-senators, I cannot be a Republican.

As far as I'm concerned, the a$$es suck wind and so do the elephants. Good times.

_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30857 - 08/15/10 09:29 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill

Our president can sure talk. It is shutting up he cannot do. The Republicans are celebrating.



...because, God forbid, an American president defend actual American values.

Top
#30858 - 08/15/10 09:51 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
Quote:
God forbid, an American president defend actual American values.


He can. Republicans are delighted that he chooses to so close to an election. Every bit helps.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
#30859 - 08/15/10 09:55 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill

He can. Republicans are delighted that he chooses to so close to an election. Every bit helps.


Does it occur to you that part of the problem here is people criticizing the President for standing up for American values, rather than criticizing Republicans for being against them?

Are we so far through the looking glass that defending our own values is a problem?

Top
#30860 - 08/15/10 10:37 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4522
Loc: State of Euphoria
The Catholic Church proposed building a church within two blocks of the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. What are they thinking?

Think the nutbars would come out on this? Bet not.
_________________________
It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to. Jean-Luc Godard

Top
#30861 - 08/15/10 11:07 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
Quote:
people criticizing the President for standing up for American values, rather than criticizing Republicans for being against them?


I must have missed the part where the Republicans were against the mosque. They are definitely for the president sticking up for them.

It is the incumbent Democrats that are worried.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
#30864 - 08/15/10 11:58 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill

I must have missed the part where the Republicans were against the mosque.


“Fact president refuses to face is the ground zero mosque is a political statement of radical Islamist triumph over world trade center,” former House Speaker Newt Gingrich tweeted on Saturday.

(Sarah) Palin’s tweet: “Mr. President, why are they so set on marking an area w/ mosque steps from what you described, in agreement with many, as "hallowed ground”?

Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, though he represents a relatively heavily Muslim state, rebuffed pleas from local Muslim leaders to back off his suggestion that the mosque would "degrade and disrespect" the Trade Center site, Politico reported.

A spokesman for former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney cited both "the wishes of the families of the deceased and the potential for extremists to use the mosque for global recruiting and propaganda" in opposing it.



Then, of course, there's this wonderful bit of racist propaganda from the National Republican Trust--



Edited by Beavis H. Christ (08/15/10 11:58 AM)

Top
#30867 - 08/15/10 06:31 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4522
Loc: State of Euphoria
GOP Trust. Sounds kind of Republican to me.
_________________________
It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to. Jean-Luc Godard

Top
#30868 - 08/15/10 06:37 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Stash]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3274
Originally Posted By: Stash
GOP Trust. Sounds kind of Republican to me.


Sounds more like an oxymoron to me.
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

Top
#30869 - 08/15/10 07:13 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Lumberjack]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4522
Loc: State of Euphoria
Originally Posted By: Lumberjack
Sounds more like an oxymoron to me.


Point! Set! Match!
_________________________
It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to. Jean-Luc Godard

Top
#30873 - 08/15/10 09:10 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Stash]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.

Top
#30877 - 08/16/10 08:42 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Quote:
Then, of course, there's this wonderful bit of racist propaganda from the National Republican Trust--


Reducing the situation to your characteristic anti-Republican race card spew not only (once again) delegitimizes and demeans the true definition of "racist", but also your input.

This is a complex, many tentacled, far-reaching issue for our country. If one takes the time to read the books Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has written, not only for western readers, but also excerpt translations of the versions published for mid-eastern muslim readers, you will find that fact undeniable. It was an incredibly serious mistake for the Bush administration to embrace and support this man and his cause, and it is a mistake for the B.O. administration to do the same.

As a strong advocate for Islamic law to be practiced the United States, Rauf represents a creeping religious, social, and political cancer determined to undermine and then destroy our Constitution and way of life as we know it.

Funky, as a woman, the things this man advocates should outrage you.

Even on the surface, those of you who continually cry "separation of church and state" should be outraged that this man travels the world first class lecturing about "religion in America" on taxpayer dollars. (And just to make my position clear, imo, there should be no "religious ambassador" funded by taxpayers.)

This is about much, much more than an official "mosque" three blocks from ground-zero. There are much, much deeper implications for this country.

_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30885 - 08/16/10 10:49 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak



This is about much, much more than an official "mosque" three blocks from ground-zero. There are much, much deeper implications for this country.



I agree.

If racist idiots are allowed to hijack this issue for political purposes, as opposed to simply following the Constitution and the law, then I propose we ban all Christian churches within 500 miles of an abortion clinic--and nobody gets grandfathered in.

After all, all Christians are complicit in the continuing campaign of terrorism against doctors performing a legal medical procedure, right?

Top
#30886 - 08/16/10 10:55 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Quote:
If racist idiots are allowed to hijack this issue for political purposes


my strike.

_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30887 - 08/16/10 12:28 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak

Quote:
If racist idiots are allowed to hijack this issue for political purposes


my strike.



Racist is an appropriate epithet.

Do we hear calls for the banning of Christian churches in certain areas when a Christian kills a doctor or bombs a clinic? Is it considered an "act of war" when a Christian blows up a federal building in Oklahoma City? Anybody objecting to the building of new churches there?

What's the difference? Skin color. Public perception amongst the Jethro and Daisy Maes of this country is that Muslims are brown people. Brown people, whether worshippin' one a' them heathen gods or sneakin' acrost the border to take our jeeeobs, are the enemy, according to the denizens of Dogpatch.

Hence, racism. They is different from us white folks, therefore they is baaaaaad.

BTW--the Imam made some good points. 9/11 wasn't executed in a vacuum, and U.S. foreign policy prior to that date certainly played a role--just as he said.

Top
#30888 - 08/16/10 12:31 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
harborknight Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: AberVegas
Allowing the mosque to be built at the site of the former Burlington Coat Factory does not mean an endorsement of Islam. There are a lot of religions that I disagree with, or even abhor that have the right to practice under our Constitution. That it is getting hijacked politically disgusts me.
_________________________
"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong." -Carl Sagan

Top
#30889 - 08/16/10 12:38 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232


Originally Posted By: Beavis
Racist is an appropriate epithet.

Hence, racism. They is different from us white folks, therefore they is baaaaaad
.

Then you're calling Harry Reid a racist.
He has just called for the mosque to built somewhere else.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30890 - 08/16/10 12:43 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak


Then you're calling Harry Reid a racist.
He has just called for the mosque to built somewhere else.


Because of course, I'm supposed to agree with Harry Reid on everything?

Republicans are the ones who march in lockstep, Iky.

Top
#30891 - 08/16/10 12:45 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Is Harry Reid, in your opinion, a racist?
That is the question.

Nevermind, I'll answer for you.

If this applies to Republicans who oppose the location of Cordoba House (btw, does everyone understand the significance naming it that?), then it must also apply to Democrats who oppose the location, and therefore, Harry Reid:

Quote:
Racist is an appropriate epithet.

Do we hear calls for the banning of Christian churches in certain areas when a Christian kills a doctor or bombs a clinic? Is it considered an "act of war" when a Christian blows up a federal building in Oklahoma City? Anybody objecting to the building of new churches there?

What's the difference? Skin color. Public perception amongst the Jethro and Daisy Maes of this country is that Muslims are brown people. Brown people, whether worshippin' one a' them heathen gods or sneakin' acrost the border to take our jeeeobs, are the enemy, according to the denizens of Dogpatch.

Hence, racism. They is different from us white folks, therefore they is baaaaaad.



Hence, by your own words, Harry Reid IS therefore, a racist.

_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30900 - 08/16/10 03:29 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: harborknight]
Thumper Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 2871
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
Quote:
That it is getting hijacked politically disgusts me.


Do you think politics has anything to do with the original idea of where to place the mosque?
_________________________
Do the right thing!

Top
#30913 - 08/16/10 06:18 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
Uh, Oh. Democrats are against this mosque also.

Quote:
WASHINGTON – The Senate's top Democrat on Monday came out against plans to build a mosque near the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, moving away from President Barack Obama on the controversial election-year issue.

Locked in a tight race, Nevada Sen. Harry Reid became the highest profile Democrat to respond to Obama, who last week backed the right for the developers to build a mosque near ground zero. Since his comments Friday, the Democratic president and his aides have worked to explain the statement, which drew criticism from Republicans and Democrats alike.

"The First Amendment protects freedom of religion," said Jim Manley, a Reid spokesman. "Senator Reid respects that, but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else."


link
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
#30921 - 08/16/10 09:31 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
funkycamper Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4757
One of the things I enjoy about being a Democrat are the rousing debates. We don't all agree nor do we take marching orders from those holding leadership positions very well. Of course, that's also why it's so hard to hold a caucus or coalition together in order to get legislation passed. It's a mixed blessing.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark

Top
#30924 - 08/16/10 09:49 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: funkycamper]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

I'm sure I have some Dramamine here somewhere...

wink
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30926 - 08/16/10 10:27 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4522
Loc: State of Euphoria
Per Joan Walsh, Harry Reid is a Tower of Jell-o.
_________________________
It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to. Jean-Luc Godard

Top
#30930 - 08/17/10 08:45 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3274
Originally Posted By: ikayak
If one takes the time to read the books Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has written, not only for western readers, but also excerpt translations of the versions published for mid-eastern muslim readers, you will find that fact undeniable. It was an incredibly serious mistake for the Bush administration to embrace and support this man and his cause, and it is a mistake for the B.O. administration to do the same.

As a strong advocate for Islamic law to be practiced the United States, Rauf represents a creeping religious, social, and political cancer determined to undermine and then destroy our Constitution and way of life as we know it.

Funky, as a woman, the things this man advocates should outrage you.



Originally Posted By: Rude Pundit
Really, oh, sweet, imbecilic right-wingers? Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the Cordoba Initiative, which dares to want cheap real estate in New York City in order to build a Muslim community center, is a radical? Really? Does anyone actually understand the meaning of "radical" anymore?

Here's what he's said over the last few years. Mullah Omar, he ain't:

"The issue of women's rights is more than an issue for women or about women. It involves everyone...The best of you are those who are best to their women. Consequently, the worst of men are those who are worst to their women."- From the Yemen Times, August 9, 2009, at a conference on advancing the cause of women in Islam.

Rauf believes in "showing those who resort to violence that it is counter to the very idea of Islam." - From the Khaleej Times (UAE), July 5, 2009.

"Islam denounces suicide of any sort, especially suicide bombings that kill innocents. Even in a defensive war sanctioned by Islamic law, suicide is expressly forbidden." - From a June 2009 commentary by Rauf.

"The Quran expressly and unambiguously prohibits the coercion of faith because that violates a fundamental human right - the right to a free conscience. The Quran says in one place 'There shall be no compulsion in religion.' And in another it says, 'To you your beliefs and to me, mine.'"- Same as above.

"Rauf was one of the few Muslim leaders who appealed for calm and tolerance after the Regensburg speech." From the New Yorker, April 2, 2007, regarding Pope Benedict's 2006 lecture where he quoted a Muslim-hating Byzantine emperor. Riots ensued.

Young Muslims "are deeply frustrated by what's going on in the name of Islam. They feel they are paying a price for actions done by a very, very negligible minority, but which capture the attention of the media. Terrorism done in the name of Islam has hurt Muslims as much, if not more, than it has hurt Westerners." - From a June 2006 U.S. State Department press release on a conference regarding Muslim youths.

"This is why we have been looking for, calling for so long for democratic regimes, for societies where people are empowered in much of the Arab and Muslim world. We are seeing massive changes going on right now in the Arab and Muslim world. When you have a disempowered people, you have things like this going on." - From a February 7, 2006 interview on ABC regarding the protests over the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed.

"The Qur'an needs to be the backing of our activism towards human rights"- From Islamic Horizons, November 2004, at a conference on religion and peacebuilding held at the College of Notre Dame.

"It's because they love what we have here, and we have prevented them from having it there. We have supported regimes that have been authoritarian and oppressive to their own people. This is why people are angry with us. If we had encouraged democracy in Saudi Arabia, Osama bin Laden would have run for political office there." - From a July 10, 2004 interview with the Dallas Morning News, upon being asked if terrorists "hate our freedoms."

"This what we call 'a no-brainer.'" - from the Guardian, September 3, 2002, on the need for just the type of center to be build at Park 51 because, in 2002, there were "25 centres for Jewish-Christian understanding in the United States, only two for Muslim-Christian understanding, and zero for Muslim-Jewish understanding."


From The Rude Pundit. Completely foul-mouthed. Don't click unless you have a high profanity tolerance.
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

Top
#30942 - 08/17/10 03:01 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Lumberjack]
funkycamper Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4757
Those who are convinced that jihad is at the heart and soul of Islam will never believe it anyway. But good try, LJ.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark

Top
#30944 - 08/17/10 08:13 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: funkycamper]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3274
Originally Posted By: funkycamper
Those who are convinced that jihad is at the heart and soul of Islam will never believe it anyway. But good try, LJ.


Particularly when there's such an abundance of projection.

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Ann Coulter
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

Top
#30947 - 08/17/10 09:50 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: funkycamper]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Originally Posted By: Imam Rauf
By embracing Islam in the peacemaking process, Obama has laid down a challenge to Muslims. Live up to the tenets of our religion, embrace Shariah law as conceived by the Prophet, and see what happens.


One example of Shariah law as conceived by the Prophet:

Surah 24. Light

1. A sura which We have sent down and which We have ordained in it have We sent down Clear Signs, in order that ye may receive admonition.

2. The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.


Hey, a new use for Olympia Stadium!
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30948 - 08/17/10 11:15 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
funkycamper Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4757
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark

Top
#30949 - 08/18/10 07:37 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: funkycamper]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Funky, you post things that make me wonder why you bother to call yourself a Christian.

You're actually asking whether or not our Lord, who is a Warrior, and who set an example for us by showing compassion upon an adulterous fornicator, protecting her from those who wanted to kill her for her failure to keep the OT Law, is any better than those who flog and stone human beings today under Sharia Law in the name of Allah???

Have you suffered a head injury, or are you denouncing Jesus Christ?
That is not a rhetorical question.
I'd really like to know.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30951 - 08/18/10 08:14 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak


You're actually asking whether or not our Lord, who is a Warrior,

...

Have you suffered a head injury,




lol

Sermon on the Mount, Iky. Sermon on the Mount. And the example on the cross. Warrior? Absolutely not. Christ renounced violence.

Top
#30953 - 08/18/10 08:57 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
mdean Offline
addict

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 514
Loc: Grays Harbor
I have to ask the (perhaps) controversial question: What makes ground sacred?

It should go without saying, the attacks on the WTC was tragic and shook our entire nation. Those innocent lives lost and the acts of heroism... the whole thing still hits us on an emotional level. I get that. I feel that. But is the ground sacred? If so, why?

I'm genuinely asking, why not the building in Oklahoma, too? Why not the subways and all the other places acts of terrorism have taken place? Is it that the buildings came all the way down? Is it the number of casualties? Is it because it happened in NY? What makes that crime scene more hallowed than another?

I can understand the knee-jerk insult of having a Muslim shrine in the place of the building that a few crazy Muslims blew up, but it wasn't the Muslims that blew it up, it was the crazies. Not all Christians shoot doctors, I'd prefer not to be painted with that brush, thank you. Yet, we are all too willing to equate Muslims with terrorists.

If not a Mosque, what should be put on that land? Perhaps another WalMart.
_________________________
Mike

Top
#30954 - 08/18/10 09:17 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: mdean]
FUBAR Offline
addict

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 628
Very good points, mdean.

Top
#30955 - 08/18/10 09:20 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: mdean]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: mdean

It should go without saying, the attacks on the WTC was tragic and shook our entire nation. Those innocent lives lost and the acts of heroism... the whole thing still hits us on an emotional level. I get that. I feel that. But is the ground sacred? If so, why?


It's an excellent question, and for that matter, by the standards the anti-Muslim right is putting out, every church in America is an affront to "sacred ground" and "religious conquest"--because they all stand on ground once considered sacred by Native Americans and taken forcibly by conquest and genocide.

Top
#30956 - 08/18/10 09:34 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
A few days have gone by since we started this thread. There was no condemnation by myself for the substance of Obama's speech. I merely said it was a stupid issue for him to take up at election time. Since then:

Quote:
Ailing 9/11 responders slammed President Obama on Tuesday for sounding off on the Ground Zero mosque while keeping silent on a $7.2 billion health care bill.

"Why have you failed us? We thought you would be our champion" in pushing the legislation, John Feal wrote to Obama.

One of the thousands who worked at The Pile after the World Trade Center attacks, Feal heads the Fealgood Foundation supporting the responders.

The plight of the Ground Zero heroes, still suffering and dying from illnesses brought on by the toxic cloud over the twin towers' ruins, has taken a backseat to the political posturing over the mosque, Feal said.

The mosque's location "is not an issue for us," he told Obama.

-----snip----
The GOP made clear yesterday it will keep hammering on the mosque issue in a drive to take back Congress.

"It's important to voters right now," said Tory Mazzola, spokesman for the National Congressional Republican Committee. "President Obama's decision shows just how out of touch he is."

link

I believe this is going to bring votes over to Republicans. Couldn't this have been handled behind the scenes like NY's governor is trying to do? There are so many important issues that Obama could have championed.

A big part of the president's job is political and he is doing lousy at it. Once more Obama turns out to be a major disappointment.

_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
#30957 - 08/18/10 09:37 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: mdean]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4522
Loc: State of Euphoria
Excellent points.

Further, as I understand it the proposed construction is not a mosque, but rather a "Cultural Center". It will contain a prayer room, and that may make it a mosque, I'm not sure.

Second, it's not at "ground zero", but two blocks away. I've not actually been in New York, but from the movies and pictures I've seen, the blocks are really long.

Finally, it's not a "victory" anything. Many Muslims died on 9-11 and many Muslims have condemned the actions of the terrorists.

But, it is like catnip to a cat for FAUX News to trump it up as the "Ground Zero Victory Mosque". Many lemmings have jumped on the bandwagon and are appropriately afraid. The communication wing of the GOP has done its job well.
_________________________
It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to. Jean-Luc Godard

Top
#30958 - 08/18/10 09:56 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
funkycamper Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4757
Originally Posted By: ikayak

Funky, you post things that make me wonder why you bother to call yourself a Christian.

You're actually asking whether or not our Lord, who is a Warrior, and who set an example for us by showing compassion upon an adulterous fornicator, protecting her from those who wanted to kill her for her failure to keep the OT Law, is any better than those who flog and stone human beings today under Sharia Law in the name of Allah???

Have you suffered a head injury, or are you denouncing Jesus Christ?
That is not a rhetorical question.
I'd really like to know.



No, I'm simply denouncing your strange logic.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark

Top
#30961 - 08/18/10 12:42 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

The whole counsel of God, Beavis.
The WHOLE counsel of God.

His Word teaches that the Lord is a Warrior.
Exodus 15:3, Psalm 24:8, Revelation 19:11

The LORD is a man of war, the LORD is His name.
Who is the King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, The LORD mighty in battle. And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.

Three holy testimonies, all teaching that the Lord is a warrior.

Christ renounced violence? Well, I suppose that would depend on your definition of violence.

Remember the parable of the wicked servant?
This is how Jesus ended that parable:

Originally Posted By: Jesus
His lord was angry, and delivered him to the tormentors, until he should pay all that was due to him. So my heavenly Father will also do to you, if you don’t each forgive your brother from your hearts for his misdeeds.


I don't see Jesus denouncing the violence implied in that parable, do you? BTW, the word "tormentors" - basanistes - means people who torture other people...like stretching them out on the rack.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30962 - 08/18/10 12:54 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak

<lengthy bloodthirsty rant snipped>


The meek. The merciful. The pure of heart. The peacemakers.

Warriors? Right.

Top
#30969 - 08/18/10 06:16 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Suit yourself with your erroneous opinion of who Christ is.
Someday you will have a rude awakening.
Let's just hope it's before you take your last breath,
and not after.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30970 - 08/18/10 06:24 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: funkycamper]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Quote:
No, I'm simply denouncing your strange logic.


What do you consider strange logic?
The fact that God's Word says the LORD is a warrior?

Or the fact that Imam Rauf advocates Sharia Law according to Muhammad for the United States (which btw, would kiss our Constitution good-bye) and I'm not at all in favor of that scenario?
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30974 - 08/18/10 07:18 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
funkycamper Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4757
The logic that leads you to fear-mongering statements.

Our Constitution doesn't allow for Sharia in this country and I hope it doesn't spread to other countries either.

But what does any of this have to do with a mosque?
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark

Top
#30977 - 08/18/10 08:18 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3274
Originally Posted By: ikayak
Or the fact that Imam Rauf advocates Sharia Law according to Muhammad for the United States (which btw, would kiss our Constitution good-bye) and I'm not at all in favor of that scenario?


The revealing thing is that the same people who have tried and failed for 230 years to turn the US into a Christian theocracy, appear to think that imminent Sharia law is a realistic scenario.

That belief would qualify as stupid.
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

Top
#30980 - 08/18/10 09:11 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Lumberjack]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Quote:
The revealing thing is that the same people who have tried and failed for 230 years to turn the US into a Christian theocracy, appear to think that imminent Sharia law is a realistic scenario.


Imminent or someday...
Do you feel no responsibility to protect your progeny of future generations?

You think that maybe Powhatan would want do-overs if he knew then the fate of the Great Tribes of North America?

How realistic do you think people in 1925 thought the Holocaust scenario was?

There are no Christian theocracies on the face of the earth.
I can count at least 8 countries in the world that practice Sharia Law, including flogging and stoning for homosexuality and adultery.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30981 - 08/18/10 09:14 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak


Do you feel no responsibility to protect your progeny of future generations?




Sure I do. A responsibility to protect them from those who would destroy America in the name of religion. Any religion.

The Park 51 building has nothing whatsoever to do with that. The efforts to stop it, on the other hand...do.

Top
#30983 - 08/18/10 09:26 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3232

Would you be against the proposed Park 51 project if you learned that anti-American terrorists were funding the project, and sedition against the United States would be taught and encouraged there?
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

Top
#30984 - 08/18/10 09:52 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: ikayak]
Beavis H. Christ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3511
Loc: Heaven. Yeah, cool.
Originally Posted By: ikayak

Would you be against the proposed Park 51 project if you learned that anti-American terrorists were funding the project, and sedition against the United States would be taught and encouraged there?


Stupid speculation. Would you object to a giant Christian megachurch being built there if you knew children were going to be serially molested in it?

Anyway, I think sedition against the United States is being taught in all of the various Teabagger groups and the Republican Party. But they have a right to their beliefs. I wouldn't object to a Republican Party office six blocks from Ground Zero even though I think Republicans were directly responsible for the tragedy.

Top
#30989 - 08/19/10 05:42 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Beavis H. Christ]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
Iran will be part owner, watch. Is this part of your freedom package? Iran does fund terrorism.

Quote:
The developers behind the Islamic center planned for a site near Ground Zero won't rule out accepting financing from the Mideast -- including from Saudi Arabia and Iran -- as they begin searching for $100 million needed to build the project.

link


Back to the Obma part of the discussion:


Quote:
Americans increasingly are convinced - incorrectly - that President Barack Obama is a Muslim, and a growing number are thoroughly confused about his religion.

Nearly one in five people, or 18 percent, said they think Obama is Muslim, up from the 11 percent who said so in March 2009, according to a poll released Thursday. The proportion who correctly say he is a Christian is down to just 34 percent.


The above was the kinder version of this story.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
#30995 - 08/19/10 08:24 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
Lumberjack Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3274
The last thing that Shiite crazies want are Sufi muslims in the US trying to improve relations.

There are lots of mosques in the US. If you want to radicalize US muslims, better to approach others.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-16-2010/mosque-erade
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras

Top
#30999 - 08/19/10 10:20 AM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Bogus_bill]
Wally B Online   content
old hand

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: Bogus_bill
Iran will be part owner, watch.


Here's an example of Iranian investment in a Sufi mosque.



Top
#31000 - 08/19/10 12:09 PM Re: Obama and the Mosque [Re: Lumberjack]
Bogus_bill Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2289
Loc: SMA Mexico
If it will tick us off, Iran will invest in it.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.

Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Who's Online
5 Registered (Brit, Matlockian, Wally B, 2 invisible), 28 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Ads
Shout Box

Newest Members
beaing, onzevil1, Sitchensis, johnsbravo, sassy
314 Registered Users
February
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29

Monitored by TechTell