#30879 - 08/16/10 09:20 AM
The latest attack on Social Security.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3486
|
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/opinion/16krugman.html?_r=2Social Security’s attackers claim that they’re concerned about the program’s financial future. But their math doesn’t add up, and their hostility isn’t really about dollars and cents. Instead, it’s about ideology and posturing. And underneath it all is ignorance of or indifference to the realities of life for many Americans. What other issues consume such attention? At worst, without changes, the Social Security trustees believe that retirees in 2037 might be forced to live on 75% of the SS benefits they would have otherwise been entitled to. It is obvious to me that something else is going on. But neither of these potential problems is a clear and present danger. Social Security has been running surpluses for the last quarter-century, banking those surpluses in a special account, the so-called trust fund. The program won’t have to turn to Congress for help or cut benefits until or unless the trust fund is exhausted, which the program’s actuaries don’t expect to happen until 2037 — and there’s a significant chance, according to their estimates, that that day will never come.
Meanwhile, an aging population will eventually (over the course of the next 20 years) cause the cost of paying Social Security benefits to rise from its current 4.8 percent of G.D.P. to about 6 percent of G.D.P. To give you some perspective, that’s a significantly smaller increase than the rise in defense spending since 2001, which Washington certainly didn’t consider a crisis, or even a reason to rethink some of the Bush tax cuts.
So where do claims of crisis come from? To a large extent they rely on bad-faith accounting. In particular, they rely on an exercise in three-card monte in which the surpluses Social Security has been running for a quarter-century don’t count — because hey, the program doesn’t have any independent existence; it’s just part of the general federal budget — while future Social Security deficits are unacceptable — because hey, the program has to stand on its own. "Social Security has been spent on other stuff because it's just another part of the government. So it's reasonable for it to be a two way street; money flows back and forth across that arbitrary border freely" OR "The Social Security system is independent and stands on its own. It can absolutely expect to redeem the "worthless IOU's" in which they've been investing the excess taxes." PICK ONLY ONE
Edited by Lumberjack (08/16/10 09:22 AM)
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30881 - 08/16/10 09:47 AM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: Lumberjack]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3685
|
The SCOTUS has ruled that Social Security is non-contractual. Congress has the right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of the SS Act. Congress could vote tomorrow to make your expected SS retirement check a fantasy. Some people think everyone should have a little more financial protection should that happen. Risk is inherent either way.
_________________________
"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30894 - 08/16/10 01:15 PM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: ikayak]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3486
|
The SCOTUS has ruled that Social Security is non-contractual. Congress has the right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of the SS Act. Congress could vote tomorrow to make your expected SS retirement check a fantasy. Some people think everyone should have a little more financial protection should that happen. Risk is inherent either way.
And Republicans intend to protect us from the risk of the destruction of Social Security by destroying Social Security.
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30896 - 08/16/10 01:45 PM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: Lumberjack]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3685
|
Is that your perception or do you have proof of that intent?
And by "Republicans" do you mean ALL Republicans, or are you talking specific Republicans?
As I understand it, this is the Republican position:
1. Workers should be allowed to choose whether to remain entirely in current system or to privately invest a portion of their payroll taxes.
2. No change would impact those receiving or close to receiving SS.
3. Any key changes would require bipartisan support.
4. Reform would not include tax increases.
How does any of that "destroy" SS?
_________________________
"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30898 - 08/16/10 03:15 PM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: Lumberjack]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2511
Loc: SMA Mexico
|
This is the crux of the story to me: First, that dedicated funding could prove inadequate, forcing the program either to cut benefits or to turn to Congress for aid. Second, Social Security costs could prove unsupportable for the federal budget as a whole. I have been echoing the red section of the above. Unsupportable. While he goes on to list all the reasons you have said that SS is strong, the first part of the statement, here is what he says about the unsupportable part: Meanwhile, an aging population will eventually (over the course of the next 20 years) cause the cost of paying Social Security benefits to rise from its current 4.8 percent of G.D.P. to about 6 percent of G.D.P. To give you some perspective, that’s a significantly smaller increase than the rise in defense spending since 2001, which Washington certainly didn’t consider a crisis, or even a reason to rethink some of the Bush tax cuts. If the pressure is already here to cut SS what is it going to be like in a few more years? Cut defense? Never.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30905 - 08/16/10 04:27 PM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: Bogus_bill]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
|
Unfortunately, there are a lot of kooks out there who would rather bomb people than feed/clothe/house people. Makes no sense to me.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30911 - 08/16/10 05:52 PM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: funkycamper]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2511
Loc: SMA Mexico
|
No matter what they say now or in the future, Social Security was a promise. For 45 plus years a significant amount of my paycheck went out for "my" SS. It was a promise for when we got older. Everything that I read says that retirees or people within a half dozen years of it are going to recieve their SS. What could they do? Throw out all the retirees into the streets?
That would mean I have got mine.
What about my forty-something-year-old kids? I happen to know that this money will be an important part of their retirement and they have already got twenty plus years in the workforce. How do they recoup that?
Some people have no social conscience at all.
_________________________
Obama's victory came from those who wanted him to change Washington, not America.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30920 - 08/16/10 08:52 PM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: ikayak]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3486
|
Is that your perception or do you have proof of that intent?
And by "Republicans" do you mean ALL Republicans, or are you talking specific Republicans?
As I understand it, this is the Republican position:
1. Workers should be allowed to choose whether to remain entirely in current system or to privately invest a portion of their payroll taxes.
2. No change would impact those receiving or close to receiving SS.
3. Any key changes would require bipartisan support.
4. Reform would not include tax increases.
How does any of that "destroy" SS?
The whole point of SS reform is to avoid the need for the rich to repay the tax cuts they borrowed from workers. Everything else is a head-fake.
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30922 - 08/16/10 09:35 PM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: Lumberjack]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3685
|
So...does your response mean that you have no proof?
You know, not that I disagree with you in the general context of fairness, but based on legal rulings, the words "need", "repay" and "borrowed" are rather...uhm...moot.
_________________________
"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#30929 - 08/17/10 08:29 AM
Re: The latest attack on Social Security.
[Re: ikayak]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 3486
|
So...does your response mean that you have no proof?
You know, not that I disagree with you in the general context of fairness, but based on legal rulings, the words "need", "repay" and "borrowed" are rather...uhm...moot.
They are the terms which were used to sell the '83 tax hike which created the trust fund in the first place. Representative Paul Ryan (Republican and member of the catfood commission) has sponsored a bill which defunds social security and raises the retirement age to 70. It doesn't have any Democratic co-sponsors, but several Republicans. The proposal only makes sense when you accept that the whole point is to repurpose the $4.5t trust fund as a gift to the wealthiest taxpayers. I don't have any proof that the tweaker with the slim-jim attempting to unlock your car door at 3:00am is a thief either.
_________________________
It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals - Anaxagoras
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
1 Registered (1 invisible),
35
Guests and
2
Spiders online. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|