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#39463 - 11/23/11 02:37 PM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: ikayak]
mdean Offline
addict

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 645
Loc: Grays Harbor
Originally Posted By: ikayak

If an order had been given to clear the protesters, they would have been derelict in their duty not to clear the protesters. Police officers may use physical force to remove protesters. Logically, that implies a risk of injury (harm) to the protesters and/or to the police officers. It's not a video game, mdean.


Nowhere will you find me suggesting the police should not have followed orders to disperse the protesters. Nor will you find I've said they shouldn't be allowed to use force when necessary.

Every encounter a cop has comes with the risk of escalation and potential harm. But, they don't approach every situation with guns drawn just because of what might happen.

I get that you don't care about how the cops handled this one. The end justified the means for you. Fine. However, I feel it is the duty of society to hold our law enforcement officers accountable to see that rights aren't trampled in the process of upholding the law. When excessive force is used, it needs to be addressed. You may consider it "whining" but it is in everyone's best interest to make sure excessive force is not allowed.

When citizens cross the lines of the law, they pay consequences. When officers cross the line of force, there needs to be consequences. Checks and balances are good for society. Public outcry is needed at times. If everyone shared your apathy we'd still have whites-only drinking fountains.
_________________________
Mike

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#39466 - 11/23/11 03:01 PM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: ikayak]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4783
Loc: State of Euphoria
Originally Posted By: ikayak

lol...it's not like I'm way out in left...er...right field alone.



Throughout history there have been many things that are wrong that have had multiple supporters.
_________________________
You can't know how good an Oreo cookie is unless you've tasted lima beans.

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#39468 - 11/23/11 03:59 PM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: mdean]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3685

Quote:
I get that you don't care about how the cops handled this one. The end justified the means for you.


You apparently don't get squat. Where did I say that I "don't care about how the cops handled this one"? Ot that "the end justified the means"? I didn't. I said that I believe that the use of pepper spray was a reasonable alternative to "hands on" removal of non-compliant and resistant lawbreakers.

That's MY opinion based on the facts as I understand them, not having done a complete and detailed investigation...just as you have your opinion without having done a complete and detailed investigation.

If you are interpreting my acceptance of independent enforcement authorities and courts conducting an official investigation and making the final determinations as to whether the police followed orders and whether they used reasonable or excessive force in this instance as "apathy"...you'd be wrong...again.

However, when the officers follow procedure, amicably warn protesters of the consequences, give the protesters appropriate time to respond to their commands and warnings, and the protesters, having agreed to suffer the consequences, do suffer a low level of non-lethal force, I am not going to get very outraged. I wouldn't be outraged if my child had been a protester. This is the real world, not a video game.

Quote:
When officers cross the line of force, there needs to be consequences


I believe that I posted something similar a few posts back. However, there has yet to be an official determination whether or not the officers in this instance crossed the line. If they did, I trust they will be disciplined. You and others seem to want to hang them without trial.

Quote:
If everyone shared your apathy we'd still have whites-only drinking fountains.


Your hyperbole becomes more and more ridiculous.
It's getting more and more difficult to take you seriously.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#39487 - 11/23/11 09:34 PM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: ikayak]
5th Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 735
Loc: Aberdeen
Originally Posted By: ikayak
It's getting more and more difficult to take you seriously.


That's your root error. You actually took Mikey seriously. No one takes Mike seriously. You may have to ditch code and start from:

///<summary>
///Logical Debate
///</summary>
///<remarks>
///I will never take Mikey seriously.
///</remarks>
_________________________
"The careful student of history will discover that Christianity has been of very little value in
advancing civilization, but has done a great deal toward retarding it."
..........Matilda Joslyn Gage, "Woman, Church and State", 1893

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#39504 - 11/24/11 12:44 AM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: 5th]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3685

I initially give people the benefit of the doubt.
He has just about expired his benefit.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#39505 - 11/24/11 12:58 AM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: Stash]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3685
Originally Posted By: Stash
Originally Posted By: ikayak

lol...it's not like I'm way out in left...er...right field alone.



Throughout history there have been many things that are wrong that have had multiple supporters.


And throughout history there have been many instances of people being outraged and overly dramatic concerning situations of relatively insignificant consequence.

See? We can both post generalities!

_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#39508 - 11/24/11 01:18 AM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: ikayak]
Stash Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4783
Loc: State of Euphoria
Quote:
See? We can both post generalities!


So, you've decided to make a run at the Capt. Obvious cape?
_________________________
You can't know how good an Oreo cookie is unless you've tasted lima beans.

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#39509 - 11/24/11 01:22 AM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: Stash]
ikayak Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3685

There are times, such as when speaking to two year olds, and often on this board, when stating the obvious is both necessary and appropriate.
_________________________

"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.

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#39523 - 11/24/11 10:08 AM Re: TEA-Party vs. OWS *Graphic* [Re: ikayak]
mdean Offline
addict

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 645
Loc: Grays Harbor
Originally Posted By: ikayak

I initially give people the benefit of the doubt.
He has just about expired his benefit.


It does my heart good to see you two kids getting along.
_________________________
Mike

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