"spoil spare the rod, spoil the child"

And, binding children with duct tape is not a liberal demorcratic value, either

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" has nothing to do with beating the child. Many Chistians have interpreted it that way. And, like one State Senator I know use it to justify damn near anything short of drawing blood for a parent not spoiling the child. But, a shephard didn't beat or spank his sheep with the rod. They used their shepard's crook to guide their flock, and individuals in the flock ie, "thy rod and thy staff comfort me." I think when a parent spanks their child, they have failed. Discipline does not and should not be physical, as in causing pain. Clearly if their heading out into the street they need to be physically stopped. The sheep didn't obey the shephard because he was stronger. If all of them came after him, the shephard would have a chance. They obeyed because he guided them.

And, binding children with duct tape is not a liberal demorcratic value, either.

True but, as you said, many use that phrase to justify beatings. Dobson of Focus on the Family has gotten rich promoting just that concept.

Untrue on both counts, and it's just irresponsible to libel him by stating he advocates beating children, especially for his own monetary gain. Shame on you.

Please don't misunderstand me. Siggie is a member of our family and we love him dearly. And despite his anarchistic nature, I have finally taught him to obey a few simple commands. However, we had some classic battles before he reluctantly yielded to my authority.

The greatest confrontation occurred a few years ago when I had been in Miami for a three-day conference. I returned to observe that Siggie had become boss of the house while I was gone. But I didn't realize until later that evening just how strongly he felt about his new position as Captain.

At eleven o'clock that night, I told Siggie to go get into his bed, which is a permanent enclosure in the family room. For six years I had given him that order at the end of each day, and for six years Siggie had obeyed.

On this occasion, however, he refused to budge. You see, he was in the bathroom, seated comfortably on the furry lid of the toilet seat. That is his favorite spot in the house, because it allows him to bask in the warmth of a nearby electric heater...

When I told Sigmund to leave his warm seat and go to bed, he flattened his ears and slowly turned his head toward me. He deliberately braced himself by placing one paw on the edge of the furry lid, then hunched his shoulders, raised his lips to reveal the molars on both sides, and uttered his most threatening growl. That was Siggie's way of saying. "Get lost!"

I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one way to deal with it. The ONLY way to make Siggie obey is to threaten him with destruction. Nothing else works. I turned and went to my closet and got a small belt to help me "reason" with Mr. Freud.

What developed next is impossible to describe. That tiny dog and I had the most vicious fight ever staged between man and beast. I fought him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and clawing and growling and swinging the belt. I am embarrassed by the memory of the entire scene. Inch by inch I moved him toward the family room and his bed. As a final desperate maneuver, Siggie backed into the corner for one last snarling stand. I eventually got him to bed, only because I outweighed him 200 to 12!

I fought him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and clawing and growling and swinging the belt.

While he doesn't consider this the same as beating a child, his books sure read as giving justification for beating a child to me.

If everyone spreads "the" lie then it becomes "the" truth. It is still lying, though, when you know it to be false. It is probably worse when done just because you hate someone's faith.