I have a 23month old. She is precious and if I ever think about treating her as these liberal democrats treated their children, please shoot me: Democrat Parenting

oh! Wait, you think that is a seriously erroneous event in Democrat Liberal parenting. Chicago. Who else hails from the liberal union corruption capital of the US ; eh, you take a guess and then look at his neighbors parenting skills

I give up! I support social abortion to the 99th year. And these parents deserve first place in line.

Disgusting. They shouldn't be allowed children or animals and glad to see that they were turned in.

Not sure how you get their political leanings from the articles though. Since liberals tend to be less authoritarian while conservatives tend to be more authoritarian with a lot of "spoil the rod, spoil the child" talk, I'd guess the other way. Or no way at all because such stupid people might not think past what's for dinner to have any kind of political philosophy.

That's christian parenting. Beating children. They (christians) probably use farm equipement to punsish their children in the name of jesus as well. These children were bound and in cases tortured. I've not heard of christians binding people. Torturing, sure, but not binding. So it has to be a liberal form of parenting. However I am still studying liberals. Liberals, fascinating creatures.

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" has nothing to do with beating the child. Many Chistians have interpreted it that way. And, like one State Senator I know use it to justify damn near anything short of drawing blood for a parent not spoiling the child. But, a shephard didn't beat or spank his sheep with the rod. They used their shepard's crook to guide their flock, and individuals in the flock ie, "thy rod and thy staff comfort me." I think when a parent spanks their child, they have failed. Discipline does not and should not be physical, as in causing pain. Clearly if their heading out into the street they need to be physically stopped. The sheep didn't obey the shephard because he was stronger. If all of them came after him, the shephard would have a chance. They obeyed because he guided them.

And, binding children with duct tape is not a liberal demorcratic value, either.

Unless, of course it is this context (not including children): "If it doesn't move, and it should, WD-40. If it moves and it shouldn't, duct tape."

True but, as you said, many use that phrase to justify beatings. Dobson of Focus on the Family has gotten rich promoting just that concept.

Untrue on both counts, and it's just irresponsible to libel him by stating he advocates beating children, especially for his own monetary gain. Shame on you.

Dobson resigned as Chairman of Focus on the Family several years ago, and has not done a Focus on the Family radio show for at least a year or more.

Dobson never advocated beating children. In fact, he said if the parent had anger issues or found themselves in any way enjoying spanking their children, and/or using it to release their own stress, they should not use spanking as a form of discipline and should seek counseling.

If everyone spreads "the" lie then it becomes "the" truth. It is still lying, though, when you know it to be false. It is probably worse when done just because you hate someone's faith.

Didn't know that he's recently left Focus on the Family but I have read both Dare to Discipline and The Strong Willed Child and, yes, corporal punishment is much encouraged in those texts. In The Strong Willed Child he tells this story in illustration of his beliefs:

emphasis mine

Really? That was the only way to get a dog to go to bed?

His books basically detail the "proper way", in his view, of applying corporal punishment. While he doesn't consider this the same as beating a child, his books sure read as giving justification for beating a child to me.

So funky, were their spidey senses tingling, too?




I don't consider a 12 pound dog "swinging the belt" at a human the same as beating a child, either.




Agreed, except no "probably" about it.

I hope you didn't spend too long trying to find that heap of dung to sling at Dobson only to come up with an animal story.

When I used to be trapped in my pickup driving to all the places I had to drive each day, I would listen to Focus on the Family when I was in radio range of a station that carried it. Never in the dozen or so years I listened did I hear anything promoting beating a kid. I heard common sense things that I wish I had known when raising my children.

I fail to see how the "battle with the chihuahua" has one thing to do with children but if you want to talk animals, a mother deer will lower her head and knock her fawn head over heals to get the fawn to do what she wants. But that is animals and of course liberals would know more about raising animals than mother nature.

I was raised with corporal punishment. Looking back it was a pretty rare occurrence but the threat kept me in line. I got a tennis shoe sole across my behind in school as well.

You folks are winning the fight. We can see the wonders it is doing for all the messed up kids, dropouts and school performances.

Back to Dobson: Liberals, spread your lies, your hate, your poison. Defend the lies of others as well. You are definitely doing your part. Family values are headed down the sh*tter. Why attack Dobson?

Ah yes, he had audacity to attack gay marriages.

And the reason we use the word "sheep" or "sheeple" to describe people who follow blindly????

Pick out another animal, please.

There is an enormous difference between spanking a child and beating a child.

It is a stretch to blame these things on insufficient beatings. It is idiotic to blame a facebook video of child abuse on liberals who believe that beating kids is wrong.

It is the consequence of doing wrong or the absence of consequences for doing wrong, not the number of beatings.



Sort of but I took that statement to be more like a bit of liberal baiting. It like Christian baiting and I appreciated the gesture.

Enormous and I agree. Some here might think they are sort of the same though. (as in a spanking is a beating)

You say tomato...

Some think discipline and punishment are synonyms. As a matter of fact, "Punishment" is the first definition of discipline in Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary. I prefer to think the 4th definition as the best: 4 - "training that corrects, molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character."

If the adult in the room cannot train in a fashion that corrects, molds, or perfects the moral character of child without resorting to "I'm bigger and stronger and can inflict pain on your behind, so you better do what say, or else!", they have failed. "Spanking or Beating" are simply shades of grey. I happen to think no physical pain in necessary. Some think 'a little tap on the bottom' is appropriate. Some think, "a paint stick on the butt a few times" will show them.

In my opinion, discipline does not need to include "spanking" or "beating" (if you think they are different).

Children running amok are a result of a lack of discipline, not a lack of spanking. I know parents who bea... spank their children and their children are out of control... because they are undisciplined.

Aha, one of the confused of whom I spoke speaks.

Actually for the most part, I agree. The corrective factor for "if I do wrong, I am going to get spanked" vs "if I do wrong I am going to get talked to death" is really different though. Not all children are the same. One size discipline fits all can not be expected to fit all.

If 5th was your child, might you reconsider?

"Beating" and "talking to death" would the only two choices for a very confused person.

Discipline does not mean either.



Maybe. But, only if I could go back in time. He's a tough looking mongrel, now.

Haven't you heard? I'm actually a 14yo kid harshing away at my keyboard in my mommy's basement while wearing spider-man underoo's that are cheetos dust and urine stained wishing I had facial hair. Too bad she doesn't give a shit about politics so binding me with duct tape upside to exercise equipment like liberals do their kids OR bea.. spanking me for discipline like christians do their kids is completely out of the question.

Well at least that is what some of GHT local NAMBLA members on this board fantasize me to be.

Anyone who knows anything knows that when you can spell ten words in a row correctly you aren't in school and didn't graduate recently.

It is a dead give-away.

While you and I may disagree on Dobson, I stand by my opinion. As I already said, I read The Strong-Willed Child and Dare to Discipline as a young parent. Was encouraged to do so by my church who was using Dobson's teachings in various classes designed for young parents. And at the time we were appalled by a lot of what we read in the books and were taught in the class. Basically, if you were not spanking your children, you're not a good parent. Balderdash.

I threw away the books long ago and just spent a cursory few moments finding quotes from the books. I find that dog segment appalling as well. He shares it as a way to brag about his assertion of authority and an example of over-powering another to prove a point. Not unlike the way a parent may need to over-power their child per Dobson. Never saw The Dog Whisperer needing to use such methods on any dog and I bet any good dog trainer would disagree as well. If you see nothing wrong with it, I feel sorry for your dog.

I'm not going to spend much more time on this as Dobson was a big turn-off for me but it was so long ago that details are vague. But a quick google did find this one:



Re the bold section: Is that really the only way to handle this situation by "offering him a little more of whatever caused the original tears". Sounds threatening to me. Why not just ignore it? It's not tough to put the child in their room, close the door, and tell them that they can't come out until they can come out and talk nicely. If they keep coming out, keep putting them back. When a child learns that their method of getting their way doesn't work, they seem to learn pretty quickly to do something else that does work.

Not all of Dobson's stuff is bad. He had some good stuff. But I think his view of corporal punishment is one of asserting authority and power over someone and I just think there are better ways.

And I definitely disagree with his desire that there be corporal punishment allowed in schools. Do you really think we would all be better off if schools brought back the hack?

I was never hacked but I sure saw a lot of abuse of it when in grade school. Mr. G was one scary mo-fo and seemed to take great glee in it. The screams of kids from the hack room were horrible. Should amend that to the scream of boys as I don't recall any girls ever getting it. Of course, it didn't help that Mr. G lived across the street from me and on more than one occasion, I heard screams from his house and was often woken up in the middle of the night hearing him pounding on the door, drunk as a skunk, yelling to be let in. I never doubted that he took on the job at the grade school because he enjoyed it. Even as a child, this was obvious to me.

YMMV and, well, obviously it does.

That's not the way the world works. Defiant people are met with stronger and stronger backlash. Punishment gets ramped up. Every adult knows that. There is no one-size-fits-all, as was previously stated. Some kids make a game of coming back out, and play it until they're bored. It's not that they finally learned their lesson, it's that they finally got bored with manipulating their parents. Parents should not ignore defiance. They should train their children that defiance is met with consequence. Just like the real world.

And yes, there should be more discipline in the schools. We are not doing our children any favors by eliminating consequences, giving trophies to the losing teams, and giving kids the impression that society will tolerate or reward asshat behavior.

Discipline is not the same as abuse.

What he said!

I agree.

Schools are doing students, but especially boys, a disservice. The default consequence for ever-more-trivial offenses is suspension/expulsion.

The point of a consequence is that you should be afraid of it. Being "sent home" is a generally preferred outcome.

I think that spanking is a very last resort at home (reserved for imminent life safety transgressions), but I'm less convinced about school.

It is not the spanking, it is the threat, the consequence for doing something wrong that works.

Many, many years ago in Swansons a six or seven year old boy was kicking his mom in the ankles, screaming at her and through all of this the mother was doing the soft talk discipline. There wasn't a guy in seeing distance that could but just barely restrain himself.

Maybe it should be the last resort but it should be on the list.

I disagree. The "threat" only works if it is known it will be carried out and that means there will be times in our schools when we tell children the best way to solve confrontation is to inflict physical pain on the other party. Intelligent adults should be able to figure out a better way. And, we should be able to teach our children better ways.

"Hitting your sister is wrong! Bring me that paddle and get over my knee!"

Every form of punishment comes with threat. Kids sometimes curb behavior based on the threat of a time out. Older kids don't want to be grounded. Regardless of the punishment, the key is to follow through- then the kid knows you mean business. Inconsistent follow-through makes any form of punishment an empty threat. Empty threats accomplish nothing. Follow through a few times and the threat is all that's needed, provided the consequence is undesirable enough. That's different for every kid. Failure to follow through creates and ongoing power struggle and unnecessary stress on the relationship. Kids need boundaries. They need to know those boundaries are firm. It creates security.

Schools are their own monster. There will always be those that feel physical confrontation is the only solution to a problem. Our kids will face the threat of violence whether we foster that at home or not. I've taught my kids to walk away whenever possible. But, both of them have been in a spot where the bullying wouldn't stop, no matter what they did. The kids were stuck. Take non-stop harassment, or fight back and get in trouble at home. Sometimes just the knowledge that it's OK to defend themselves and not be someone's punching bag is all the confidence they need to stop being the victim. Bullies pick out the weakest of the herd. If your kids no longer cowers, there's a good chance the bully will move on without a punch ever thrown. Either way, I wasn't going to ask my kid to go to school a nervous wreck everyday and take the abuse. I gave them some pointers and the green light to fight back. Some bullies only understand that language. In both cases, the bullying stopped shortly thereafter.



It also illustrates what it's like on the end end of the strike. Sends the message that if you don't like getting hit, don't hit anyone else. If you do hit, count on getting hit back. If we don't teach them that, someone else will. Count on it. And they won't be aiming for the soft cheek, they'll be aiming at teeth.

Very true. I agree completely. And, notice none of this paragraph necessitated beating the child. HooRah!



As did I. The operative phrase is "whenever possible".



Yep. Darn straight. Physical punishment by teachers and/or parents has no equivilance with putting up with schoolyard bullying.



We have a different opinion of the message.

Fair enough. I'm not arguing that the message doesn't look contradictory on the surface. But, a parent handing out a swat on the butt is not the same as one sibling punching or biting the other. One is done in anger, or just plain orneriness, with the intent of hurting, for no reason other than to hurt. Discipline is (should be) done with love, for direction, with the goal of not having to do it again, sparing both children further pain. Pain is a good deterrent. You can spend all day telling them not to touch a hot stove and some will still touch it. But, rarely twice.

Well, then you go the next step and take away a toy or other favorite possession, or the privilege of going to a friend's birthday party or some other upcoming event they have been looking forward to, or make them do extra chores, etc.

I'm not opposed to more discipline in the schools. I am opposed to someone hitting my child.