#41488 - 01/31/12 08:19 PM
GH Democrats
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 3126
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
|
The GH Dem. Mtg. on Thurs. night has - UNINVITED - Working Wild Olympics to give a presentation Ouch, so much for open debate. GH Dems have made their choice, are you in?
_________________________
Do the right thing!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41494 - 02/01/12 09:30 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Thumper]
|
addict
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 403
Loc: Aberlachia
|
Who are you quoting, and from what source?
Just curious, also, when the GH Repugs welcomed a presentation from the wild olympic proponents?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41495 - 02/01/12 09:35 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Strider]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 3126
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
|
Dan Boeholt from his FB Page.
Second question, I don't know, have the WO people asked?
I do not go to either the GH Dems or Repubs meetings, so, all my knowledge is at least second hand regarding what they are doing.
Edited by Thumper (02/01/12 09:46 AM)
Edit Reason: added
_________________________
Do the right thing!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41497 - 02/01/12 09:46 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Thumper]
|
addict
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 403
Loc: Aberlachia
|
I don't know if the proponents have asked to speak. But, just asking does not create any right to be put on the agenda, and shouldn't even reasonably lead to an expectation of being put on the agenda.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41498 - 02/01/12 09:51 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Strider]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 3126
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
|
Are you saying that is what happened?
_________________________
Do the right thing!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41499 - 02/01/12 10:02 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Thumper]
|
addict
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 403
Loc: Aberlachia
|
I have no idea what happened as I rarely attend those meetings anymore.
I asked, and commented, because your initial post, and that of whoever you were quoting, struck me as somewhat combative and divisive, and not real interested in any open or friendly discussion of the issue.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41500 - 02/01/12 10:26 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Strider]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 3126
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
|
I asked, and commented, because your initial post, and that of whoever you were quoting, struck me as somewhat combative and divisive, and not real interested in any open or friendly discussion of the issue. I said I quoted Dan Boeholt. The GH Dem. Mtg. on Thurs. night has - UNINVITED - Working Wild Olympics to give a presentation You consider this combative and divisive? How so? not real interested in any open or friendly discussion of the issue I would say that from what I quoted that would show that our local Dems feel that way. I think I said that when I wrote the following; Thumper quote- Ouch, so much for open debate.
GH Dems have made their choice, are you in?
_________________________
Do the right thing!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41504 - 02/01/12 01:48 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Thumper]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
|
When a group of people who have previously openly and willingly self-disclosed themselves as Republicans show up at a Democratic Party meeting with a resolution that they demand the Democrats vote on, it is more than a bit presumptuous. Those same people then demanded to be put on the agenda. They were simply informed that they were not put on the agenda for this meeting. They were never invited in the first place.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41507 - 02/01/12 04:17 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: funkycamper]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 3126
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
|
So, you are saying that Working Wild Olympics is a Republican only group?
I understand why some Dems would be against the WWO, but surely listening to the WWO could not hurt. Has the WO people talked before the GHDs? Has the WO gave a presentation to the GHRs or have they even asked?
If neither side listens, don't expect things to get better.
_________________________
Do the right thing!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41526 - 02/02/12 08:05 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Thumper]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
|
It doesn't hurt for both sides to listen. True that.
I just can't figure out how people can oppose something that is in draft mode and asking for input for revisions. So many revisions have already been made based on input and that process will continue.
WWO leadership asked for numerous revisions and got them but then they go around saying WO won't listen to them. Because of that, they have no more credibility with me.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41528 - 02/02/12 08:29 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: funkycamper]
|
old hand
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 715
|
No more credibility than W.O. I oppose it because I neither trust nor believe it will stop with what is proposed. Not to mention IMHO its not needed to begin with.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41537 - 02/02/12 09:49 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: MWMI]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3685
|
Thank you, me too!
_________________________
"The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra"...B.O.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41540 - 02/02/12 10:14 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: ikayak]
|
journeyman
Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 96
Loc: Hoquiam, WA
|
I just can't figure out how people can oppose something that is in draft mode and asking for input for revisions. So many revisions have already been made based on input and that process will continue.
Without taking a side, I believe one of the main issues I hear lately from opponents is the general thought that the main conversation has been on adding protections, while there has been very little conversation about other forest management acts such as revisions to the Northwest Forest Plan and allowing more harvests of blowdown (a la after the 2007 storm, lots of blowdown was in the Olympic National Forest and was just there to rot. Even Al Carter was there to say something should be done, but nothing was and the issue received no attention from the same federal delegation folks pushing the Wild Olympics plan). The takeaway I've received from opponents is why is the federal delegation pushing the Wild Olympics plan when they've never pushed other forest management acts to benefit the timber industry?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41548 - 02/02/12 12:55 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: StevenFriederich]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
|
And that's just it, I think a lot of anger about what has happened in the past has been lumped onto WO. That's black and white thinking, imho, and something I've never been one to do.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41550 - 02/02/12 01:23 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: funkycamper]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 3126
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
|
And that's just it, I think a lot of anger about what has happened in the past has been lumped onto WO. George Santayana is known for the sayings, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" and also "Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily."
_________________________
Do the right thing!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41553 - 02/02/12 03:55 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Thumper]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
|
I'm looking at current wild and scenic river designations in other areas and how it's worked. And I don't see evidence of the doom and gloom you do. But I really don't want to debate the WO issue with you or anyone else. So I'm outta here. Viva la difference.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41555 - 02/02/12 04:16 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: funkycamper]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 3126
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
|
With all the protections already built in, why do you think we need more regulations on our rivers?
_________________________
Do the right thing!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41578 - 02/03/12 02:48 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Sitchensis]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
|
It was the normal monthly meeting.
Thumper, the way I understand it is that the current protections in place in some of the areas (not within the National Parks/Forest) can be wiped away by the stroke of the president's pen. By having Congress pass the proposed legislation, it would take an act of Congress to rescind it.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41580 - 02/03/12 04:05 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: funkycamper]
|
old hand
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 715
|
This is exactly what I see happening here if this proposal goes through. Yeah right now those in support say it won't but what guarantees do you have? Exactly none. This is why the W.O. proposal will not get my support.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41584 - 02/04/12 07:28 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: MWMI]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
|
If they win the lawsuit, you have a point. People file dumb lawsuits all the time.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41588 - 02/04/12 01:02 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: funkycamper]
|
journeyman
Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 86
|
If they win the lawsuit, you have a point. People file dumb lawsuits all the time. With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. This is indicative of a prevailing and growing attitude on the part of environmental groups. Where once they were advocates of access to boost public support for protection, they now seek to restrict access for the preservation of areas "untrammeled." These are not just "people" filing "dumb lawsuits," they are powerful organizations with money and some of the best environmental law talent in the country with a long, long list of successful litigation. And, as I am sure you are aware, part of the strategy is simply filing federal lawsuits to interminably tie up proposed actions for years. "Winning" is often a secondary strategy. I think The PI article cited by MWMI was a very fair assessment, written by a very liberal columnist, of the potential issues that could very well arise given the current climate in the elite of the conservation community. If WO proponents want folks to come over to their side on this, then I think they will need to address this and if they do that honestly I'm not sure they'll be able to say this is in the best interests of the local community and the tradition of community access to these areas. I could be wrong but if folks take the approach of being dismissive of valid concerns like this, as cited, then the proposal is dead already.
Edited by Matlockian (02/04/12 01:08 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41589 - 02/04/12 01:24 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Matlockian]
|
journeyman
Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 86
|
I wanted to add a broader observation of conservation efforts in general.
There has been a major shift in international conservation efforts over the last two decades. After seeing failure after failure in protection efforts, conservation groups began understanding that sustainable local communities, especially those culturally and economically based on resource extraction, is a prerequisite to sustainable resource protection. This is a welcome change in my mind. People have to live, and you cannot expect to change foundation cultural practices overnight and simultaneously expect local support for protection interests. Sure, you can try, and perhaps even succeed in the short term, but at what cost to local communities and to the interests of broader environmental protection in the long term.
It would be nice if there was some acknowledgement of this domestically as well.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41596 - 02/05/12 10:41 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Matlockian]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4992
|
If they win the lawsuit, you have a point. People file dumb lawsuits all the time. With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. This is indicative of a prevailing and growing attitude on the part of environmental groups. Where once they were advocates of access to boost public support for protection, they now seek to restrict access for the preservation of areas "untrammeled." These are not just "people" filing "dumb lawsuits," they are powerful organizations with money and some of the best environmental law talent in the country with a long, long list of successful litigation. And, as I am sure you are aware, part of the strategy is simply filing federal lawsuits to interminably tie up proposed actions for years. "Winning" is often a secondary strategy. I think The PI article cited by MWMI was a very fair assessment, written by a very liberal columnist, of the potential issues that could very well arise given the current climate in the elite of the conservation community. If WO proponents want folks to come over to their side on this, then I think they will need to address this and if they do that honestly I'm not sure they'll be able to say this is in the best interests of the local community and the tradition of community access to these areas. I could be wrong but if folks take the approach of being dismissive of valid concerns like this, as cited, then the proposal is dead already. Actually, you raise some good points. Thanks for the food for thought.
_________________________
"If a 'right' exists for me, but not for thee, then it's not a right but a privilege.' - Fred Clark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41600 - 02/06/12 03:12 AM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: funkycamper]
|
stranger
Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 2
|
I do not feel it. But also to try and research them.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41646 - 02/08/12 07:02 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: onzevil1]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 3126
Loc: I'm in a blue state.
|
The GH Dems. have now RE-INVITED the Working Wild Olympics Coalition to their May 3rd mtg. to give a presentation. Chair Pat Wadsworth is also hoping to have Sara Crumb, from Norm Dicks' staff -
Boeholt Facebook page
_________________________
Do the right thing!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#41647 - 02/08/12 08:22 PM
Re: GH Democrats
[Re: Thumper]
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4783
Loc: State of Euphoria
|
The GH Dems. have now RE-INVITED the Working Wild Olympics Coalition to their May 3rd mtg. to give a presentation. Chair Pat Wadsworth is also hoping to have Sara Crumb, from Norm Dicks' staff -
Boeholt Facebook page This is a good thing. Always enjoy a good conversation and presentation. At the last meeting, no presentation was necessary. There was only a ridiculous resolution to vote on. It was easy to kill. It said, "Some local, state, and federal elected officials were complicit in a coverup." The only one they could have been talking about was GOP Commissioner Welch. And, I think it would have been innappropriate for the Dems to say that about him. The resolution was voted down unanimously. Looking forward to the presentation.
_________________________
You can't know how good an Oreo cookie is unless you've tasted lima beans.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
1 Registered (1 invisible),
50
Guests and
2
Spiders online. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
Previous Topic
Index
